Its time for new Cat and Dog models!

Serene Night

I actually really liked mr. Puggles. Sadly his pose set was discontinued and I wasn't able to buy it but the model still is a lot of fun

Kendall Sears

JOdel said:

The MilCat and MilDog - full versions - are going to be a tough act to follow. And the fact that something like over a decade after release they are *still* the major cat and dog models in use, pretty much says it all. There was nothing stopping other artists from building a dog or cat and offering it for sale in that decade+. Nothing, that is, except the fact that they were going head-to-head with the MilCat or MilDog, and evidently decided that they couldn't compete.

For that matter, there *have* been at least a couple of wholey unrelated, 3rd-party pet-class animals turn up in the Poserverse. That Boston Terrier model, for example. There's also a product called something like Mr Puggles. There may be a couple of cats as well. But you have to hunt for them, because they don't have a major company behind them.

I don't think that we are ever likely to see *any* vendor hold back a product until it has the same volume of breed morphs and textures that came with the MilCat and MilDog. Today's marketing just doesn't do that. When the DAZ Big Cat2 came out it had some basic breeds, yes, it also had PA add-ons to fill some of the gaps. The current paradigm seems to be either a team release like the DAZ Horse 2 or Big Cat 2, where the base model is released, with at least a few morph options, and a group of PAs bring out additional add-ons of morphs, textures, and tack, if applicable, Or the Hivewire/AM model where the base character is released when it is ready, and additional morphs come out later (like the wolf/husky or elephant/mamoth releases).

And one advantage to the later paradigm is that it would seem to me that nothing much would prevent a 3rd-party from creating a commercial morph/texture set built from that base, any more than there is anything but the requsite skill standing between any 3rd-party and creating a commercial morph/texture set for V4, or any of the Genesises. They need to be specific about what base the morph is built for, and whether there are additional add-ons required for it to work, and whatever company handles it really ought to have someone available who is familiar enough with that base to do competent QA. But the time is coming where there is going to be no absolute requirement for every animal model out there to be an independent standalone.

We aren't in the habit of thinking about it like that. The MilCat and MilDog bundles were so "complete" that even people who are competent modelers probably never thought of rolling their own. So most of us sit and grouse that there isn't a specific breed that we have a need for. But remember, there have always been a few gifted amateurs who have offered freebie morphs and textures for the various bases which turn up in a LOT of renders. 

I'm going to have to disagree a little bit about why there was never a "followup" to the Mil-Animals... From my experience, the main reason for a lack of someone doing it is that, until recently, the market for animals was far less than even the market for human male items.  Animals take a HUGE amount of effort to get even close to being right.  The amount of detail needed to not look like a clay-mation reject is ridiculous, and until LAMH doing fur was pretty much out of the question.  Without some type of backing, the effort to make a "multi-breed" animal can't happen.  There simply isn't enough sales in animals (for the most part) to pay for the time a multi-breed model takes.

<shameless plug>

Now, with this being said, some PAs -- Alessandro in particular -- have such a reputation for quality that the animals will sell by name recognition alone.  How many here see "Animal by AM" and know for sure that the animal will be detailed and pretty much as anatomically correct (not genitalia and we all know why) as can be had in the 3D market?  

</shameless plug>

Kendall

DaWaterRat

Kendall Sears said:

JOdel said:

The MilCat and MilDog - full versions - are going to be a tough act to follow. And the fact that something like over a decade after release they are *still* the major cat and dog models in use, pretty much says it all. There was nothing stopping other artists from building a dog or cat and offering it for sale in that decade+. Nothing, that is, except the fact that they were going head-to-head with the MilCat or MilDog, and evidently decided that they couldn't compete.

For that matter, there *have* been at least a couple of wholey unrelated, 3rd-party pet-class animals turn up in the Poserverse. That Boston Terrier model, for example. There's also a product called something like Mr Puggles. There may be a couple of cats as well. But you have to hunt for them, because they don't have a major company behind them.

I don't think that we are ever likely to see *any* vendor hold back a product until it has the same volume of breed morphs and textures that came with the MilCat and MilDog. Today's marketing just doesn't do that. When the DAZ Big Cat2 came out it had some basic breeds, yes, it also had PA add-ons to fill some of the gaps. The current paradigm seems to be either a team release like the DAZ Horse 2 or Big Cat 2, where the base model is released, with at least a few morph options, and a group of PAs bring out additional add-ons of morphs, textures, and tack, if applicable, Or the Hivewire/AM model where the base character is released when it is ready, and additional morphs come out later (like the wolf/husky or elephant/mamoth releases).

And one advantage to the later paradigm is that it would seem to me that nothing much would prevent a 3rd-party from creating a commercial morph/texture set built from that base, any more than there is anything but the requsite skill standing between any 3rd-party and creating a commercial morph/texture set for V4, or any of the Genesises. They need to be specific about what base the morph is built for, and whether there are additional add-ons required for it to work, and whatever company handles it really ought to have someone available who is familiar enough with that base to do competent QA. But the time is coming where there is going to be no absolute requirement for every animal model out there to be an independent standalone.

We aren't in the habit of thinking about it like that. The MilCat and MilDog bundles were so "complete" that even people who are competent modelers probably never thought of rolling their own. So most of us sit and grouse that there isn't a specific breed that we have a need for. But remember, there have always been a few gifted amateurs who have offered freebie morphs and textures for the various bases which turn up in a LOT of renders. 

I'm going to have to disagree a little bit about why there was never a "followup" to the Mil-Animals... From my experience, the main reason for a lack of someone doing it is that, until recently, the market for animals was far less than even the market for human male items.  Animals take a HUGE amount of effort to get even close to being right.  The amount of detail needed to not look like a clay-mation reject is ridiculous, and until LAMH doing fur was pretty much out of the question.  Without some type of backing, the effort to make a "multi-breed" animal can't happen.  There simply isn't enough sales in animals (for the most part) to pay for the time a multi-breed model takes.

<shameless plug>

Now, with this being said, some PAs -- Alessandro in particular -- have such a reputation for quality that the animals will sell by name recognition alone.  How many here see "Animal by AM" and know for sure that the animal will be detailed and pretty much as anatomically correct (not genitalia and we all know why) as can be had in the 3D market?  

</shameless plug>

Kendall

While that's generally true, the less polymorphisim there is between breeds, the less I'm willing to invest in separate models of what is basically the same thing.  With domestic dogs, where there can be extensive variation in phenotypes beyond coat length and pattern, it makes a certain amount of sense.  Domestic cats, where there is substantially less variation in phenotypes other than coat length and pattern, make less sense, and I'm going to be more resistant to buying separate "Calico" "Siamese" and "Domestic Long Hair" models than to "Pug" "Hound" and "Retriever" models - though even there, I'll hesitate over the lack of ability to make mutts, and be annoyed if Labs and Golden Retriever are separate models, since they have the same build.

The development of the Husky add on for the Wolf gives me hope, though.  I'm okay with buying separate "Calico" "Siamese (brown point)" "Siamese (blue point)" and "Domestic Long Hair" materials/presets.  Just not fully separate models.

IceDragonArt

Kendall Sears said:

JOdel said:

The MilCat and MilDog - full versions - are going to be a tough act to follow. And the fact that something like over a decade after release they are *still* the major cat and dog models in use, pretty much says it all. There was nothing stopping other artists from building a dog or cat and offering it for sale in that decade+. Nothing, that is, except the fact that they were going head-to-head with the MilCat or MilDog, and evidently decided that they couldn't compete.

For that matter, there *have* been at least a couple of wholey unrelated, 3rd-party pet-class animals turn up in the Poserverse. That Boston Terrier model, for example. There's also a product called something like Mr Puggles. There may be a couple of cats as well. But you have to hunt for them, because they don't have a major company behind them.

I don't think that we are ever likely to see *any* vendor hold back a product until it has the same volume of breed morphs and textures that came with the MilCat and MilDog. Today's marketing just doesn't do that. When the DAZ Big Cat2 came out it had some basic breeds, yes, it also had PA add-ons to fill some of the gaps. The current paradigm seems to be either a team release like the DAZ Horse 2 or Big Cat 2, where the base model is released, with at least a few morph options, and a group of PAs bring out additional add-ons of morphs, textures, and tack, if applicable, Or the Hivewire/AM model where the base character is released when it is ready, and additional morphs come out later (like the wolf/husky or elephant/mamoth releases).

And one advantage to the later paradigm is that it would seem to me that nothing much would prevent a 3rd-party from creating a commercial morph/texture set built from that base, any more than there is anything but the requsite skill standing between any 3rd-party and creating a commercial morph/texture set for V4, or any of the Genesises. They need to be specific about what base the morph is built for, and whether there are additional add-ons required for it to work, and whatever company handles it really ought to have someone available who is familiar enough with that base to do competent QA. But the time is coming where there is going to be no absolute requirement for every animal model out there to be an independent standalone.

We aren't in the habit of thinking about it like that. The MilCat and MilDog bundles were so "complete" that even people who are competent modelers probably never thought of rolling their own. So most of us sit and grouse that there isn't a specific breed that we have a need for. But remember, there have always been a few gifted amateurs who have offered freebie morphs and textures for the various bases which turn up in a LOT of renders. 

I'm going to have to disagree a little bit about why there was never a "followup" to the Mil-Animals... From my experience, the main reason for a lack of someone doing it is that, until recently, the market for animals was far less than even the market for human male items.  Animals take a HUGE amount of effort to get even close to being right.  The amount of detail needed to not look like a clay-mation reject is ridiculous, and until LAMH doing fur was pretty much out of the question.  Without some type of backing, the effort to make a "multi-breed" animal can't happen.  There simply isn't enough sales in animals (for the most part) to pay for the time a multi-breed model takes.

<shameless plug>

Now, with this being said, some PAs -- Alessandro in particular -- have such a reputation for quality that the animals will sell by name recognition alone.  How many here see "Animal by AM" and know for sure that the animal will be detailed and pretty much as anatomically correct (not genitalia and we all know why) as can be had in the 3D market?  

</shameless plug>

Kendall

There is no doubt that his animals are amazing and every single one of them that I don't own is in my wishlist lol.

FSMCDesigns

I have to agree that Alessandro's latest animals have been outstanding looking in quality and resemblance to the real thing unlike some of his earlier work. Unfortunately I don't have any of them as I have a hard time justifying the cost (on my end) due to the limited use I would have for them in any of my projects. I see them and I get a great idea for a render or two, but beyond that I can't see much other use. his indian elephant is a prime example, I drooled over the quality, but I need an African elephant instead, big difference, Personally a single mesh that could be Indian or African would have been much larger value IMO and I am hoping further developments might include multiple breeds, especially for any domestic animals.

A new deer package with several different breeds/genders/sizes is something I would like to see.

Oso3D

Like a lot of things, the problem is that people are often not willing to put the money into a decent product. So the product doesn't get made as often.

It's annoying, capitalism is.

 

FSMCDesigns

True Will, but also remember what many call capatalism, many also call it keeping the lights on.

Kendall Sears

FSMCDesigns said:

I have to agree that Alessandro's latest animals have been outstanding looking in quality and resemblance to the real thing unlike some of his earlier work. Unfortunately I don't have any of them as I have a hard time justifying the cost (on my end) due to the limited use I would have for them in any of my projects. I see them and I get a great idea for a render or two, but beyond that I can't see much other use. his indian elephant is a prime example, I drooled over the quality, but I need an African elephant instead, big difference, Personally a single mesh that could be Indian or African would have been much larger value IMO and I am hoping further developments might include multiple breeds, especially for any domestic animals.

A new deer package with several different breeds/genders/sizes is something I would like to see.

Based on the tech available at the time they were great.  Compared to today, they show their age.  Back then, those were heavy for the machines available.  In a few years we'll be saying the same thing about today's models.  Imagine what kind of desktop it would take to do the kind of models Disney used for "The Jungle Book."  I don't have to imagine, I've seen what they did use.  I can guarantee you that if the tech was available at the desktop, both of us would be offering models at that level.  Before anyone says it... morphs aren't even a pimple on the pickle compared to the musculature tech used on those models.

Kendall

Serene Night

I just need the domestic cat and dog. I rarely have need to render wild animals no matter how well done so I've been really waiting for them to appear in the store. Sadly it has been a long wait so hopefully they will be released at either store soon.

Pendraia

BeeMKay said:

Pendraia,

unfortunately, they don't fit very well, and you have to do a lot of adjustments. Here's an example of G2M and G1 using Dusk poses, with the tack and bridle adjusted for Dusk. The angles are not right, and the distances don't fit. Yes, you can adjust, but it isn't just minor.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the shapes of the HW animals, but it's a fact they don't play together well with DAZ's Genesis.

EDIT: I am not referring to the gap for the shoes, but mostly the leg position and the arms&hands position

The solution to that is you might want someone to make some poses specifically for Genesis 1/2/3 for Harry. I do adjustments like you are talking about when I use my Diva morph for Dawn on the horse it's not what I think of as something that would stop me using a product but can see how for some it would be. There is no reason though that someone couldn't make a pack of poses for Harry for Genesis figures in fact I'd probably buy it myself ; )...and talking about it I do know someone who uses Harry and also Genesis who makes poses so I may have to go and have a chat with them.

 

 

Rae134

I'd buy those too Pen! (I'd buy more poses for harry and Dawn/Dusk too, or just about any other human model :D)

I find you can't have too many poses, they're a great starting point to get you where you want

Pendraia

My thoughts exactly Rae...and I know that I've used Genesis 2 and 1 poses on Dawn and Dusk happily before and I don't mind do adjustments as I do that with any pose I use. I always view them as a starting point too!

kyoto kid

Serene Night said:

I just need the domestic cat and dog. I rarely have need to render wild animals no matter how well done so I've been really waiting for them to appear in the store. Sadly it has been a long wait so hopefully they will be released at either store soon.

...+1

And as I said tha cat has to bend like a cat.

 

mrposer

I want new domestic cat and dog models. I think there should be a good market for them. They can either be the main subject of a render or be put in almost any human modern, historical, or even epic fantasy renders as added elements. These new big cats, wild animals, dinosaurs, and dragons are all cool but very limited in how you can use them.

BeeMKay

Pendraia said:

BeeMKay said:

Pendraia,

unfortunately, they don't fit very well, and you have to do a lot of adjustments. Here's an example of G2M and G1 using Dusk poses, with the tack and bridle adjusted for Dusk. The angles are not right, and the distances don't fit. Yes, you can adjust, but it isn't just minor.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the shapes of the HW animals, but it's a fact they don't play together well with DAZ's Genesis.

EDIT: I am not referring to the gap for the shoes, but mostly the leg position and the arms&hands position

The solution to that is you might want someone to make some poses specifically for Genesis 1/2/3 for Harry. I do adjustments like you are talking about when I use my Diva morph for Dawn on the horse it's not what I think of as something that would stop me using a product but can see how for some it would be. There is no reason though that someone couldn't make a pack of poses for Harry for Genesis figures in fact I'd probably buy it myself ; )...and talking about it I do know someone who uses Harry and also Genesis who makes poses so I may have to go and have a chat with them.

 

 

Hi Pendraia,

yes, such pose packs would certainly be welcome. I don't mind fixing poses, but like i said, it's not just a small fix, and especially with things like reins it's a pain in the rear end to get pose and accessory together. Like I said, I like the HW horse and cat, I bought both products, instabuy.

Lack of poses for the item does not keeping me from using the product, per se (though it made me stop buying products where I know I'd literally spend hours to create the specific poses for the G1 or G2 characters I use, and it only comes with G3, for example), but it makes me use them differently. 3D is my hobby, and I'm trying to get a webcomic rendered in the few hours of the week that I have available to the hobby.

WillowRaven

kyoto kid said:

 

...+1

And as I said tha cat has to bend like a cat.

I've never had a cat do that, lol ...

BeeMKay

kyoto kid said:

Serene Night said:

I just need the domestic cat and dog. I rarely have need to render wild animals no matter how well done so I've been really waiting for them to appear in the store. Sadly it has been a long wait so hopefully they will be released at either store soon.

...+1

And as I said tha cat has to bend like a cat.

 

So true!

The body of a generic cat is extremly flexible. It's more flexible than a lion's body. I wonder if it makes sense, if you use the same mesh as base, to give the generic cat its own limits for rotation.

 

FSMCDesigns

kyoto kid said:

...+1

And as I said tha cat has to bend like a cat.

Just turn off limits, LOL

BeeMKay

FSMCDesigns said:

kyoto kid said:

...+1

And as I said tha cat has to bend like a cat.

Just turn off limits, LOL

 

It might need a few extra bones, too.

SpottedKitty

kyoto kid said:

And as I said tha cat has to bend like a cat.

That first one isn't a cat, it's a furry Slinky™ — and the other two are definitely acting up for the camera.  

kyoto kid

...I have seen cats perform all sorts of contortions. I have also noticed the mesh of the Mil Cat to distort when using the available pose sets. Just watch a cat do the classic "head dive' to roll over on the ground (a relatively common move) trying to reproduce it causes the neck to distort unnaturally.

Pendraia

 

BeeMKay said:

Hi Pendraia,

yes, such pose packs would certainly be welcome. I don't mind fixing poses, but like i said, it's not just a small fix, and especially with things like reins it's a pain in the rear end to get pose and accessory together. Like I said, I like the HW horse and cat, I bought both products, instabuy.

Lack of poses for the item does not keeping me from using the product, per se (though it made me stop buying products where I know I'd literally spend hours to create the specific poses for the G1 or G2 characters I use, and it only comes with G3, for example), but it makes me use them differently. 3D is my hobby, and I'm trying to get a webcomic rendered in the few hours of the week that I have available to the hobby.

I know how that feels as I'm in the same boat and don't get a lot of time outside of work. The person I contacted is going to look into it. So fingers crossed and hopefully it will become easier for you to do if they can find the time to do some...

 

Mendoman

Oh man, I have to stop reading these forums. After I saw those HW Big Cat images I couldn't help myself...btw, my credit card said it hates you guys 

Hmmm, now where could I use my new leopard....

nicstt

Kendall Sears said:

kyoto kid said:

...maybe he'll come out with a kittycat...hope hope.

see page 2 of this thread.

Kendall

Woohoo.

nicstt

rgrinly_3c04c79a1b said:

Yep - the Hivewire Big cat is out..and what a beauty it is. I'm pretty sure the domestic cat and dog, when they arrive will be equally as impressive. Here's my quick and dirty render of the bigcat.( Poser 11 with firefly render)

Very impressive, but the silhouette is too smooth.

nicstt

kyoto kid said:

Serene Night said:

I just need the domestic cat and dog. I rarely have need to render wild animals no matter how well done so I've been really waiting for them to appear in the store. Sadly it has been a long wait so hopefully they will be released at either store soon.

...+1

And as I said tha cat has to bend like a cat.

 

That first image, says it all about cats; I've had em since I was a little boy, and I'm still surprised by the positions they get themselves in; and they look perfectly comfortable too.

Knittingmommy

Yep, I've had lots of cats over the years and each one was like a pretzel!  They could manage to get themselves in some of the strangest positions and look comfortable doing it.  The last time I tried doing any similar poses with the Mil Cat, I gave up.  I might have to try again now that I'm better at posing, but I have serious doubts I'll have any better luck, not with the limited bones in the underlying structure.

Rae134

If the new house cat at HW is anything like their new Big Cat then poses like that would be close

Wonderland

Thiese are promo images from Stonemason's Fern Lake bundle. Which big cat did he use? This was pre-HW big cat but looks much better than the Daz one...  How did he get the fur to look so great?!? The second one looks amazing, almost like a photo. 

BeeMKay

Wonderland said:

Thiese are promo images from Stonemason's Fern Lake bundle. Which big cat did he use? This was pre-HW big cat but looks much better than the Daz one...  How did he get the fur to look so great?!? The second one looks amazing, almost like a photo. 

That's how the DAZ Big Cat 2 looks when Alessandro_AM's LAMH works its magic on it. http://www.daz3d.com/real-fur-for-big-cats-2