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There's no doubt about that, but it isn't as easy to make morphs to them as it would be with better base geometry
Thanks for reply & links. Bookmarked for when have more time to play with G9. Time's running out for story telling halloween project, the turkey day, then...
Holiday season a busy time. I wonder if DAZ took that into account. I'm guessing most users will already have seasonal logjam of a workflow. G9 release would've been better after newyear's imo.
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PS: Wonderful render! If Christian can be 'updated' hopefully RY Steven can. : )
Yes, converting an entire cast seems overwhelming and I might not have the technical knowhow or apps if the morph is HD. (ZBrush gets mentioned quite a bit.)
Back to sitting on the fence then.
Slightly OT, but I have a very dry sense of humor. DAZ seems to want to move towards more average body types and BMI. A noble idea, but the perennial question for debate-- how will a an average looking character sell alongside a tall, impossibly curvy one? What pays the bills? DAZ might've answered the question.
Yesterday the store had a sale on lingerie.
I'm on the train but the ride is too limited for me. The fact that they removed surface areas for the lips and eyes makes G9 almost unusable for me. The only way to create shine on lips is apparently through the SSS texture itself so I'd have to go into Photoshop to paint on shine lines on the SSS textures, then bring them back into DS, to check if it looks OK... I REALLY hate that they removed all the individual surfaces!!! I almost always tweak them on every character.
So I'll use G9 sporadically, the main advantage being the realism of the eyes, but it will be a lot more work and I may have to experiment making my own shiny lip textures. I think it will be on the back burner to G8 after I've exhausted the fun of playing with a new toy. I have WAY too much invested in G8 and a zillion morphs including the trans ones which let you change the sex of the character if you want & UV swap. I will be VERY picky about clothes unless they are very different from what I already have and are backward compatible. I guess a PA will create clones hopefully and ways for hair to work on both characters without having to parent and for hierarchical textures to work...
Right now it seems like twice the work to get G9 how I want but it loads super fast (for now) so there's that...V9 out of the box is unusable commercially because she's so recognizable (like V7 was as gorgeous as she was.. ) My biggest hurdle is the lack of surface areas on the face and I really don't like PBR. I believe Mousso and hopefully others will still support Uber.
I'm still hoping for a universal animal shape with tons of morphs but not sure if that's actually happening.
When one has 901 curvy, dime a dozen stereotypes, the average ones may look quite tempting
You could always create that lip surface using the geometry editor and save that version of genesis base. It's pretty easy to create new surfaces in Daz (it takes like 5 minutes in the case of lips) and it doesn't even require any sort of modelling or texturing skills because even I can do that. Naturally you are allowed to expect this to be something as part of the model itself but that clearly is not the route they went.
Oh dear. Been so focused on converting unique characters, haven't had time for surfaces except for tweaking teeth. I'd just assumed something like aweshader if want softer look in 3DL...
Thanks for pointing that out.
Heh. Gets debated at least once a year? (Along with why there's at least twice as many outfits for women as opposed to men.)
No answer except maybe, "To each his own." Are pin-up artists (in the spirit of Vargas, etc.) going to want 'average?' who knows!?
Anyway, I'm straying way off topic with that can of worms. You have a good point though. Now I'd better log off and see if breakfast is ready.
kind regards
--Bruce
First I what to say it is cool that you like Genesis 9 that is fine by me, but to me no matter how many renders I have seen posted on this Community form to me it still looks like a carbon copy of Genesis 1 and as a consumer this product looks rushed.
As someone who has actually made carbon copies, I can attest that Genesis 9 is not an actual carbon copy of Genesis.
OK put them side by side and prove it too me that Genesis 9 is not a carbon copy of Genesis 1.
While it may not be a 100% carbon copy of Genesis 1, Genesis 9's technology is the same as Genesis 1's technology. In that Genesis 1 and Genesis 9 are both anthropomorphic figures. The thing now is whether Genesis 9 will be successful, considering how long Genesis 1 lasted.
If you want to make a specific claim (that 9 is acarbon copy of 1, whatever that may mean) then the burden of proof is on you.
I won't be as much into G9 as I have been into G8. G9 is a disapointment despite some really great new things like expressions.
High detailed skin details is a matter of high res normal maps, and can be done on every figure. You don't need G9 for it.
The missing edge loops give bad distortions on some joints at base resolutions.
I am not happy about G9 at all.
As a conclusion with some character and material converters, G9 will most likeley end up as character's face close up proxy. Nothing more.
Haha, I thought about that too.
So can anybody tell me why this is not a carbon copy?
Can I ask @Timbales was there anything else (besides the breast ) on Genesis 9 that looks like it's not a carbon copy of genesis one?
By the way I like your username.
The whole base shape is different, not only the breasts. Torso and hips shape for example.
I mean, the mesh, UV mapping, rigging method and bones are totally different too, but I assume you meant the overal visual impression, not the technlogy behind it.
I did that already. You can actually turn them into conforming eyes for G8 the say way there are for G9. Will take all the eye morphs from g8 too.
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/599041/jeepers-creepers-i-gave-g8-g9-s-peepers#latest ;
Yep you got it right , but what I see is that they reused same model, by widen the hips and torso just a bit, added breast and made it smaller. I had to adjust the height to compare it.
I'm not at all sure tyou are right, but even if you were right about the shape of the un-morphed mesh what would that matter? It's about the least important aspect of the figure. All the functionally siginificant stuff is significantly different. I took "carbon copy" to mean you thought the stuff that goverened how the figure works and what options it has was the same, which certainly isn't true.
Other than the fact that they both look human, with typical human proportions (which is what a base figure should be - sort of a blank canvas), IMHO they are quite different. The polygon topology is hugely different (see attached image - G1 on the left, G9 on the right, proportional scaling adjusted on G9 to make them the same height). The shape and placement of the polygons is very important for both the bending of the figure, and for creating details in the model based on what the general shape and underlying muscle and skeleton structure of the human body. For example, you can see easily where the quadriceps are on Genesis 1, not so much on Genesis 9. Regardless of all the technical stuff that may or may not be an improvement of G9 to G1, obviously G9 is in no way a carbon copy of G1.
IMHO, the topology of G1 is much better than G9. So far it's unclear to me why DAZ has gone what seems to be backward with the topology of the newer figures. One explanation has been to make it easier to create non-human characters, and possibly to make clothing creation easier. We'll just have to wait and see if it really is better, or if many people end up staying with earlier figures, or going elsewhere.
yeah without any doubts the big sins of genesis 9 is really his "ugly topology, it's looks reallly so "lazy" less more about making a human and more about "take short cuts" to make a easy to deal base doll, it can really be amazing to make "non human characters but to make "humans" and animate and distortions without any doubts it's really poor and gonna need really a lot of "jcm and "hd" to make its bend as much good as previous genesis characters, making things "easy for vendors not aways well translate to make to "good for customers" and for sure g9 goes really bad in a really bad direction on its topology.
Agreed!!!
I use the lip surface to adjust lip color and shine on almost every render I do. I'm sure one of the enterprising vendors will come up with a product to work around this short coming, But that will be an extra added expense that wasn't needed before. The other option (other than the geometry editor, which isn't an ideal work around IMHO) is to create a set of LIE presets for the lips (getting ready to do that for my stuff.
While talking about makeup (sort of), I'm really dissapointed with the V9 makeup.It applies a "foundation" when you use it. Seems like a rater odd decision to me. you have a figure with great freckles, and if you want to use the makeup for that figure you are forced to use a faontadion that covers the freckles. While I've decided to keep V9, I may just return the makeup if it's not easy to hack (tried just turning off the foundation layer, and that simply doesn't work) and pick up some generic makeup (one set if already available ar Rendo).
That explains why something feels a bit off with V9 .... the shoulders!!!
I picked up the shapes bundle yesterday, but haven't played with it much yet. I thought form the promos that the fitness details looked a little less detailed, was hoping I was wrong, but sounds like I wasn't
. It also sounds like the genitals aren't quite as useful??
I did jump back on the train long enough to pick up the Victoria 9 Brave Highlander Bundle with the shapes bundle. I got a great deal with it. I really liked the two outfits, with and easy to use long hair style for G9, I know it will get some use (with V9) for fantasy renders. But, I've jumped back off the train until I get a chance to really use G9/V9 (or try to use). My general impression so far is that it will take a lot of extra purchases to get it to work/look right and be as versatile as G8 and older were with just the basic morph packs (like the lips not having an easy way to adjust glossiness).
Now I'll just sit back and test things out while I watch the train go by.
did Mallenlane model it?
My V9 train has derailed and I have requested a refund. I cannot get converted strand-based hair to save/load properly. DAZ claims "incompatible" and does not seem interested in fixing the problem. Also, the fitness and lithe morphs look really messed up with some of the bends - like forearm. There is an adjustment called "Base Joint Correctives" that makes bends better, but I feel that bending and posing is better in G8/V8. I may return the Body Morphs for a refund. Finally, there are no simple "built-in" expression morphs in G9/V9, as there are in G8 - You have to pay for that.
Going back to the train question:
- Got Vicky 9 with the $10 off option.
- Got the Soft Curls Ponytail with the $10 off from $30 option.
- Got the Starter Essentials Expansion and now the Gen 9 Essential Shapes Bundle.
- Got the Medieval Style Outfit and the two additional hairs from outoftouch.
For me that is absolutely enough for the moment to play around and see how I may transfer older clothing and shapes over to Gen 9 and to see whether I can use new Gen9 stuff on older Generations. Will maybe pick the one or other new release along the way but not so much and mainly stay with Gen8/8.1 for the moment.