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They aren't comprehending what you're saying, my friend.
At a certain point you speak to the quiet reader who may be confused by some assertions.
+1, though I'm probably not listed under the quiet section :)
For my use, the only advantage G9/V9 has over any previous figure series are it's vastly improved textures.
Once that goes away, it makes G9 irrelevant.
I really don't care if it can be morphed into a suitcase or an airplane in a 3rd party modeler app.I'm not that type of user.
I want to be able to use my favorite clothes on it, which I can for the most part as most of them are dforce anyway.
Shoes and hair of course are problematic just like every other figure series, so those things are not a big deal to me.I've been there before.
If the PAs can deliver characters I find attractive using those fantastic looking textures (not reuse the same one obviously); I'll buy them.
Currently just waiting for a PA to deliver what I'm looking for.
I am specifically talking about the creases and shapes that are still visible under the breast, not the shoulders. And they get even worse when you dial in the male shape.
If I'm the only person in the world that cares that these are there, that's fine. But it's starting to feel like I'm being gaslit and being told they aren't there when they clearly are, and that I'm at fault for not thinking this is a good look.
No, you're not.
If it becomes a permanent feature for the G9 series it's going to impact character sales, at least for me anyway.
Let's hope the PA's or devs decide it's neither attractive nor desirable and do something to fix it.
I think everyone will agree with you that autofit is NOT perfect. Its never going to give you a perfect fit out of the box but its a far better solution then anything we had before the days of Genesis figures. For any outfit to have a much better fit to any figure other than the one it was made for, it would need to have its weight maps adjusted to accomodate the different figure. I have that same outfit and I get the same results as you do but I also get those same resutls on Genesis 3 Female. I also saw issues with outfits that use rigid followers as they dont sit in place when fitted to G9. But overall from my experiance with it, its still working better out of the box then with previous generations so far.
Well I'm not a PA here, I work mostly in Poser but have developed for DS in the past and Genesis 9 is wooing me back to the fold as I really really loved Genesis 1 for the male/female ease of use. I'm a ZBrush person so for me making nips and navels are no big deal and then just add in a Normal map and you have what you need. Now the PA's here have access to other tools that make the fine details really pop out like those little bulgy bits on the areola's of both males and femals. I MIGHT be able to do that with a really hi def Normal map but I've not tried as of yet.
All in all I'm very happy that DAZ has decided to go down this road again with all the improvements that have come along under the hood in DAZ Studio. So this new Genesis will have a better chance of becoming the norm for the future of figures for this platform. Who knows, with DAZ they may decide to go back to split figures for the 10th iteration of Genesis! LOL Now now, no throwing rotten fruit at me, I've been around A LONG TIME here and I've seen it all! LOL
I wonder..
I can remember either Genesis or G2 has a different size degree from other character generations in some limbs, but I cannot remember which of those two it happened with. Anyway, this discrepancy had to be corrected for in my pose transfer scripts. I think it was about 4.4% different in size, and applied to knee and elbow bend. I wonder if this is what we're seeing here. The clothing limb has rotated the same number of degrees as the G9 limb, but unfortunately the size of the degree for the clothing is different from the character.. Maybe, maybe not, but it could be an explanation if it only happens with knee and/or elbow bend.
Regards, Richard.
..so a few question after trying to digest t all I've read.
1. Are G9's skin textures (even non HD ones) 8K?
2. If so, can one reduce the skin map resolution back to 4K using a script like The Scene Optimiser?
3. Do non HD textures look worse than HD ones when rendered?
4. Is G9 radically different enough to the point that there will be no morph/shape transfer utilities from older generations like G3 an G8 (meaning you will have to buy all new figures/characters)?
Given the return to the unimesh, am hoping to see the next release of the Skin Builder utility will work for male characters as well since G9 uses the same UV for both. Hopefully we'll see a number of utilities that embrace both genders in the same package.
The only 8K texture that I am aware of is the normal map, which does not load by default.
The one and only 8k map for V9 was recently removed and replaced with a 4k map.
http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/87472/start
"...Resolved Issues
2022-10-27 updated texture maps
2022-11-07 updated leg Texture map to reduce from 8K to 4K..."
So, you don't have an answer.
Whatever the PA's can do is of no interest, it's about what we the users can do and normal maps are not the solution.
Some people probably don't want to understand the difference.
So it's a free product that can't be used without the user buying the stuff to make it work or products, that are made by PAs who have the stuff to make their products work?!?
I can agree to this impression. Not buying is the easiest way to avoid spending money for something one does not need.
We will have to agree to disagree. Normal maps are wonderful and can give allot of detail with out making the figures poly count overly bloated. These maps are used to create everything from fine detail to bulging out veins and all the rest. As a content creator I know what I talk about. Just because I don't work for DAZ 3D doesn't make me just an average user.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of end users that want companies like DAZ3D to make something that fits their desired use case instead of learning how to make do with what they got.
We all have moments like that but many folks have a really hard line to cross when they are used to how something works instead of being OPEN to new and advantageous improvements. What they may think is a step back eventually makes sense unless they just refuse to accept, learn and realize that it's better. I mean some folks still think that Aiko 3 is the cats meow but there will always be those that don't embrace change or as you stated want things the way they want things..... It is what it is!
You could have said so from the beginning. You original post doesn't state that or read like constructive critism but more like a statement that Daz just doesn't care. There is nothing wrong with wanting change, but no reason why you cannot make an official feature request via the ticket system to have the changes made to smooth out the chest area more.
^THIS!^ Maybe you should add Dr. Geep II to your username!
It's why I'm waiting for KHImages ultimate bend series before I fully dive in to create scenes with G9, but as far as making morphs and the like, it's perfect! For those with modest computers, your patience is wise as you cannot be so caviller with your scenes, so I hope you'll get what you need with the upcoming morph packs and the like!
...well, of all the versions of AIko, the gen3 release is still the cutest. As time went on she began to look more and more like a realistic person and less anime inspired. I know, there have been others who tried to take her place, but Aiko3 is still my go to for that style..
You asked and I answered. Have a great day.
FWIW, I like normal maps. They can be very useful, but they must be used with a modicum of intelligence. They don't provide any actual displacement. That can sometimes cause the illusion of depth to fail.
I thought about geografts, too. Then you have to be concerned about texturing the new geometry in a way that works with the existing geometry and you're maybe looking at geoshells to get coverings (not necessarily clothing but any covering) to work with them. That's true of any geografts, I think. More work.
? it comes with everything needed to work - but you do have to dial something up - sorry if I wasn't obvious about that.
A HUGE help in getting the different sizes is the built in Proportional morphs that come with the base figure.
Depending on the outfit, you will still get some shrink wrapping of the boobs and some distortion around them as well but overall its not as bad as G8 and G3. Smoothing modifiers are more effective because of how well it auto fits now. The bra fit perfectly instead of looking like it was a larger bra taped to smaller cleavage. As for the tank top, its G3M's basicwear tank and I had to manuall fit it and scale it down so it didn;t look like she was camping in it. Also did it to get a proper drape across her chest so it would shrink wrap her.
I'm finding it quite hard to decide who I agree with in this debate. I see the point that @Padone and some others are making but I can also appreciate that the developers have chosen a direction to make other things easier to achieve.
What I don't understand is this kind of superior attitude which seems to suggest that people who buy into G9 are somehow expected to know how to create normal maps in ZBrush (I'll never be able to afford ZBrush) or that G9 is just a base figure and not meant to use without some significant vendor additions (or, again, user additions created in ZBrush). Perhaps this has always been the case and I have just not noticed it before but I have to say that I rarely use HD morphs on G8 because they cause all kinds of poke-through isses as the clothing collides with the base mesh and not the HD additions. So something that has an even more basic mesh does not seem to be a step in the right direction for me - unless they come up with a way to have dForce drape over HD.
As for nipples - they are not great on G8 either which is why I use a 3rd. Party geograft.
Another issue I have with G9 is that the lips seem "mushier." There are so many small muscles in human lips and G8(1) and even V4 seem the best at these micro expressions. I don't know the correct names for what's under the hood, but are there less vertices or quads or polygons or whatever they are called in the lips? I had this same problem with all Genesis models until G8.
...ah, so the tank top wasn't auto fitted. I don't mind manually fitting hair, that's easy and necessary to keep the movment and styling morphs (been doing that since Gen4) but clothing is a different process and sometimes more complex matter, particularly when posing.
I think the point here is what content creators can do, without having access to the PA-only HD importer, rather than suggesting that everyone should sculpt their own morphs (which does not have to be done in ZBrush, GoZ just makes that convenient when it comes to actual morphs).