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Not in the area that counts
I'm honestly not sure what to do with this, now that I've seen it. Victoria 9 looks more or less "normal?" That is, it looks how you'd expect a regular Daz character to look? But Genesis 9 looks more like a base mesh you'd use to start sculpting a Daz character. I don't see how it's useable for any purpose out-of-the-box. Maybe it plays nicely with clothing, or something, due to the simplicity of the mesh? But we won't really know that until people have used it extensively. I've heard the facial expressions are better than Genesis 8, but I'm still learning 8.1, so can't personally confirm.
Final answer: wait and see.
That's because it *is* a base mesh designed to be a starting point for the creation of custom characters lol ;)
- Greg
It is about topology aka mesh flow, not about mesh density. This I already explained in details in your previous example so let me know what's not clear to you I'll try to explain better. Sure if you don't need body details then the G9 base mesh may fit, otherwise you go HD. For example the G9 navel is HD, in the base package you can't even turn it off there's no way. So you see why G9 is HD based.
After playing a while with G9, I am still on the fence. I agree mostly with Padone here.
I really don't like that unisex base figure system at all.
That at least neds a rider "for some purposes".
It can be disabled. Thats in the base Essentials package, what everyone gets for free.
Navel can be turned off.
Your assertion that the figure needs HD details is incorrect.
If you need further explanation or examples, feel free to ask for help.
Been messin with it the past few days. So far it is lookin like I might not switch to the G9 train at all, instead of just getting on when the ticket price is lower, there is more content to use, and most of the bugs are ironed out. Without HD, it seems it is just a vaguely human shaped clay person. Great for zbrush sculpters with access to the hd tools I am sure. For the rest of us tinkerers, not so much.
If someone without a high end PC wanted to render say a crowded beach scene, it's gonna be a whole lot of render passes and compositing involved. With say, g8, you can render quite a few backround filler people at once, and just turn it down to base mesh subd and lower the resolution on image maps. They still look like real people, navel, nipples and all.
Maybe change my mind in the future, but for now it's not lookin too inticing.
yeah. As i use it, my thoughts go to the fact i can do what i need to do using G8. Everyone has different needs, of course. Now what can I do with the morph package if not on G9? Let it clutter dust or send it all back for a refund? It would be the second $6 DAZ+ coupon I would lose because of G9, so even if I don;t use G9, it has cost me $12.
@Mattymanx Thank you I missed the HD navel off.
@Oso3D Yes please show us how you do a navel with the G9 base mesh, without HD or geografts.
G9 is really not supposed to be used out-of-the-box. :) Its a genderless base that is optimised to work as efficient as possible for both male and female genders, as well as any other shape users want to make.
A base model cannot have features that are too strong, or it will make it hard to change the look of a character - anyone remember the first Michael morphs? It took an extreme effort to make the face look like anything other than Michael. Having a base that's easy to sculpt, change and morph helps to give variety to gene pool.
It should be noted that in a lot of arenas, the approach taken is generally to make a high polygon sculpt, project it onto a lower polygon figure, and then bake the difference as Normals. That process does not require HD tools.
Or, as I did here, just do it in basic resolution.
And, like previous image, this uses no G9 elements that cost money.
Though, again, for less than $20 you can get the HD navel/nipples plus loads of shapes to play with. I don't know about you but even before I was a vendor I snapped up the base head/body shapes, and it's even cheaper now that it's not separated male and female.
One thing that bugs me, now a lot of products will be made for both g8 an g9, but have only one zip containing both. Probably a tiny minority though, I doubt most people like to have seperated libraries by figure like I do. Just means I gotta split them up myself and archive it that way. A bit of extra work.
Its split 50/50 between the male and female shapes so that you only have to dial 50% either way. With the original Genesis figure you had to dial 100% to get the female shape and it caused stretching issues.
Image shows Breasts Gone morph applied to the base figure with a texture map that shows up distortions
It has always been that way. Nothing is new about this.
Basic shape pack:
and with no textures as it loads
are you going to render with no textures?
I'm not going to render a checkboard skin either. Thank you.
OK here's an image with the shoulder bend down. It looks like you don't have joint correctives turned on.
edit : added an image with the shoulder bend down and a male skin, as well as a clothing item with both shoulders bend down and breast gone morph. I do use the checkerboard texture because it shows up problems right away.
That's not to say G9 is either good or bad, just that it lends itself to those who basically make one (maybe two) character renders at high subD. Those who don't like myself can always use other base models for their work and pass on G9.
If you are trying to make a crowd, yes, the density is twice normal. But you can take a lot of shortcuts to help: you can skip mouth objects, tears, and eyelashes for characters not close enough for it to matter. Also, most of the actual load of a figure is texture, not geometry.
So it's unlikely to make a big difference?
Nice to see distorted, completely unbelievable triceps continue to yet another generation.
I made a quick pose preset to turn the base joint correctives on and off since it seems like it happens a lot - zero figure would be the biggest culprit since it will reset everything to zero. Restore figure is the better option to use.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5hvvouec08i5dvm/BaseJointCorrectiveOn.zip?dl=0
I think it will make almost zero difference. The geometry of the base figure consumes a very small amount of the total resources of a typical figure render, even at Sub-D 2. If you push that up to Sub-D 4 or 5, then it will start to be relevant, but you would need a very good reason to go up to that level of sub division, particularly on G9, which already has a lot more base level polys.
As you said textures are more relevant, but then so is hair, and clothing. I have seen eyebrows with a million polys, which makes the resource consumption of the base a total irrelevance.
...the new unimesh is about the only thing that interests me as with previous generations, using "Breasts Gone" morph often results in collapse of the mesh in the nipple/areola region (which can affect clothing fits) as well as does nothing to reduce the diameter of the breast area (often resulting in an unnatural curved "ridge" at the bottom). Even reducing the breast size with "Breast Small" causes these distortions as the diameter of the default breast mesh in G3 and G8 is rather large and again is not adjusted accordingly.
So with this new mesh set to be "inbetween" folks will be able to make small breasted women, trans folks, little kids and all that with no issues with how the clothing fits. That's the idea any ways. I've read this thread and a couple of others and folks seem so upset that nipples and navels are now just a morph and hi def map. SO WHAT! I think what it boils down to is folks don't like change but are intrigued enough to check it out and then complain about X Y & Z until they get used to the new way! LOL Cracks me up!