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..so about G9 hair content. I tend to manually fit and parent hair content between generations rather than use Autofit (which sometimes causes issues like style/shaping morphs not working or wht lint hair a "kink" in the mesh at the neck level) however I read somewhere (I can't remember if it is this thread or another) that for some hair content this may not work well.
There are a few G9 styles I've seen that I wish existed for earlier generations but am reluctant to purchase.
The simple fact that really cannot be argued is that the figure is a 3d mesh. As a mesh it can be morphed ito all kinds of shapes (as my library can attest).
If I can morph the mesh on the chest into chest plates, or scales or any other kind of wierd fantasy/alien creature. There is absolutely no reason someone could not make a morph into their desired shape. Default shapes are simply default, they may not appeal to everyone, so if someone wants a specific look, then it can be morphed into it. There are no limitations as to how it can be shaped except how much the person is committed to want their pet preferences.
G9 is the best selling figure daz has put out, so they must have done something right
safe to say those chest shapes deviate greatly from the default...so something much more human could be done alot easier than those
I think my biggest problem with chest meshes and their corresponding morphs - on any generation - is how clothing conforms to them. I really wish Daz upgraded its cloth system because once you add dForce simulation it turns into a nightmare. Then again, I'm sure there are workarounds, but not having fully understood and developed the skills to utilise whatever those workarounds may be, I can only look at Marvelous Designer with envy. When I trialled that app, I was blown away by how easy it was to use when creating morphs for clothes. Much more likely to pick up a sub to MD than Premier Studio when my Daz+ converted time ends.
In terms of chest meshes sans clothing, I don't understand the issue. Perhaps I looking at it from the left rather than the right (using an analogy given above), but honestly, my 3D modelling skills don't stretch much beyond boxes and even I manage to reshape chests. That includes breasts too, which, from whatever perspective I'm viewing from, don't exactly flow from the store with the variety of morphs needed to match my idea of how breasts can look and behave. While I don't do topless renders, I do spend time giving my ladies what I consider to be more representative endowments. And my men too, actually. Which I think puts me into the "it's the morphs not the mesh camp". That also leads me nicely back to the problem as I see and use figures - the cloth system (UGH). And that problem is near exclusive to figures with boobs, so I get a little het up when people say everything is designed around the ladies. I just can't agree with that. Yes, the content is heavily skewed toward the ladies - and I've opinions about that too - but the technology works better on the men. From my perspective, anyway.
Only if people refrain from addressing their comments at people rather than points.
While it's true that an expert, such as yourself, can morph a mesh into about any desired shape, for mortals such as myself it's a lot easier if we are starting from something close. I have no doubt DAZ could sell a hi-res sphere, and some vendors could morph and rig that to be a good quality male of female human character. Most of us don't have that level of skill so I would appreciate it if DAZ sold us something which an 'average user' can turn into a good character, rather than something which needs professional level skills ( and tools ) to achieve a good result.
I guess the harder it is to make a figure look good the more PA's will make money from making characters that are beyond average skills, but I don't think that's a good way to encourage take-up.
When the new thread is eventually created we'll have to call it "The Genesis Model Debate: The Next Generation" or something of that effect. The Next Generation will have to be in there. Make it so!
I dont really understand this line of reasoning because nobody expects daz users to be sculpting a character starting from the gender neutral base mesh, with zero sculpting skills under their belt. Most Daz users are using a library of purchased and/or default morphs and would begin their dial-spinning from a starting state that approximates their desired final shape. They wouldnt start from the neutral base mesh.
I would be curious to know what your workflow looks like. If you like the G2, G3, G8 base shapes, and want to use them on G9, im sure it would not be difficult to source a rigged clone for those base shapes, or otherwise transfer any previous shapes from previous generations to G9. The benefit of G9 having higher mesh resolution is that most shapes will transfer successfully.
To claim these "library issues" are an inherent G9 issue is the result of an incomplete thought.
I can only speak for myself. It's not so much that I want to sculpt from a neutral base, it's more that I want to be able to modify a purchased character to my needs. If there are 'features' built into the base mesh ( abrupt change of normal direction below the breast ), or excluded from the base mesh ..( navels nipples ) , then it's much harder for me to modify the character and get the desired result. I use some morphs from the store, but in difficult areas like chest shape these often conflict, so trying to fix a chest with bought morphs is extremely time consuming, and often the end result is not good.
There arent immovable features built into the area below the breast on G9. They are polygons that can be moved. You might be mis-attributing your experience of having insufficient morphs to there being an issue with the base mesh. Im not saying your experience is not real, I am saying your conclusion is incomplete.
Have you considered using the built-in HD navel and nipple morphs? Or are you limited to Base res in your work? The HD navel and nipple seem perfectly fine
That's what I find interesting about the "G9 as androgynous base for content makers". If someone is making clothing they want to be able to suit a male or female character, it's seldom going to be a garment that conforms the breasts like a bra or bikini top. It's more often going to be something looser like a t-shirt.
It seems like a figure with that has volume to the general breast area, suggestive without the contours being so sharply defined, would be a better base for making those clothes.
Why not use the same approach to the breasts as the navel and nipples? using HP morphs to define and detail?
Not that I'm asking you specifically, I know you didn't make the figure. Just makes me wonder.
Also - Vadim is a great looking character, love his face.
Using conforming clothing for cloth draping feels like a fool's errand anyway in 2024. Perhaps it is time everyone collectively moved on to a proper cloth sim. Even in games real time cloth simulation is increasingly becoming a thing. People have said Blender's cloth sim is improving, so perhaps daz can invest in this also.
One thing I will say on the subject of optimising conforming clothing (and this is just spitballing) is perhaps Daz could consider creating standards for character creators so that it becomes easier for clothing creators to support them with FBM correctives. What I mean is, most characters are built from the G9 Neutral Base mesh or, in fewer cases, they are built on top of the 2 gendered G9 morphs (G9 Male, G9 Female). It might make more sense for character creators to build their characters on top of the various G9 body shapes instead (whichever one is closest to the character). That way clothing creators could better approximate a decent fit with a FBM supporting those basic shapes without needing to make a bespoke one for every single character. Similarly, having a library of standard chest/breast morphs that clothing creators could support with correctives could help.
But again, we just need a better cloth engine so these concerns become irrelevant.
Conforming clothing is an obsolete technology as far as I am concerned; I only use Marvelous Designer for fabric simulations. Conforming clothing is an important tool for daz users, I recognise, so they do need a solution to this but I havent the slightest idea how to make clothes for daz. Im aware that there are general-use clothing fit projection morphs to smooth out breast areas on clothing which could work.
Character body parts that are prone to distorting clothing (like hands, feet, and breasts) perhaps should be on their own separate dials so they can be dialled out if they mess up wearables.
I dont think that would work for most users, as some people are restricted to base resolution.
Thank you.
Does the issue with conforming clothes really count as a discussion about whether one prefers Genesis 9 over an earlier version?
Because the shape of the base mesh affects how fitted clothing deforms, then the base mesh and its library of clothing become inextricably linked discussions. One could argue there is no limitation imposed by the base mesh on fitted clothing, because fitted clothing can assume any shape the designer wants using corrective morphs, however in practice it is not possible to create a corrective blendshape for every permutation of the base shape, and some corrective shapes may require manual input from the user to make the adjustment anyway, and therefore the influence of the base shape on fitted clothing is a relevant consideration.
Obviously if you have a general solution for clothing like Metatailor or Marvelous Designer, it becomes an irrelevant discussion. But when the discussion is about Genesis 9 and its library of clothes, then it perhaps is relevant how the figure has been designed to accept clothing.
I l ike a lot of the G9 characters, but am using them less often because I never know if I'm going to be able to render using two dressed G9 characters and a light detail scene without exceeding 12GB VRAM (even at sub-d 2). Sometimes yes, sometimes no. If I want to continue with the scene I have to fuss around trying to reduce textures and stuff like that, something that I really don't have a lot of time for. With G8 I rarely have to waste time trying to optimize a scene, even with multiple figures in camera and a full environment.
Most generations start out just meh it seems but as more content is created for them with more morphs, bells and whistles, I think ALL generations are useful for different and often similar things. Now all generations can be used for toons, they all have good varied toon morphs if you own the right content/morphs. G3 and up is good for realism. Some G2 can even look somewhat realistic in portraits with AnaGenesis shaders as can Gen 4 (V4/M4) characters. Gen 3 (Aiko 3 especially) is still good for toons as well as G1. I don't think there is a train, more like a bunch of different Ubers lol.
Don't make me start posting pictures of train wrecks.
@UnvannyValet is 100% correct on this front. Marvelous Designer is far superior than DForce. If you see some of his work over on DeviantArt, the clothes drape excellently. And the outfits are SO much cheaper than buying clothes on DAZ. You can edit them in one program without having to import them over to Blender or deal with joint corrective morphs. Only down side is MD went subscription a few years ago. I was lucky, and purchased it before it did. Though, its a little outdated. Texturing is a little bit of a nightmare, because you have to rely on shaders (so it gets a little matchy matchy, and a keen eye can notice).
You deserve far more recognition for your renders! It's almost criminal you don't have more likes and followers! Excellent, excellent work!
...yeah I have a very old version of MD and unfortunately have no interest in subscription software. I actually wrote and asked if I could still purchase MD8 (which was the last perpetual licensed version) and they said no.
Not sure when it improved, but I noticed filament opacity mapping seems to have improved even in 4.22
for me the cost probably evens out because perhaps i save some money on daz clothing. I guess you can justify the cost in multiple ways. I havent done a calculation.
I tried and loved MD earlier this year but somehow missed the marketplace. I've been holding off subbing until I've enough scenes to sort out clothing in bulk, but you might have just enticed me to sub earlier than planned. The store looks fantastic. Daz really needs to up their cloth engine, among other things.
you can obtain MD clothing zprj files on many different marketplaces on the internet, not just "the store" which i assume you mean the official MD one within the software (clo-set?)
Artstation has been the go-to place for many years. The MD official store used to be very expensive like 5 years ago but has gotten a lot better, and many garments on Artstation can also be obtained from there now.
I agree partially with the post above about texturing being a nightmare sometimes for MD clothing. Especially with certain fabrics like denim. Some fabrics will look okay using a repeating texture, but denim texture for example can never look good with a repeating texture/shader, so needs custom UV-mapped textures. There are some MD creators who make clothing with custom UV-mapped textures , so not all MD clothing relies on using repeating textures. For example, this vendor sells well-textured denim outfits, and other outfits: https://connect.clo-set.com/portfolio/93727/collection/collections
You can actually use MD to do some basic UV-mapped texturing with Substance materials and adding overlays etc, and then bake to UVs. Its probably better to use other software for baking out custom UV-mapped textures though.