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Yeah... Ever since the release I have been wondering about the 'better' mesh, now we know that it's because of shortcomings of ZBrush...
What do you mean?
There's a lot of things G9 doesn't need but people want anyway. So, hey, why not?
Also, it can be handy to have tools for things you could do 'properly' but can save you time. Like, let's say you've set up a scene juuuust how you like it, and suddenly realize you didn't set up a proper light to get the eye glint you want to see. Or you are doing something more stylized.
Having an additional tool is, well... handy for spot cases like this.
I am curious as to what is missing for you since I do lots of pinups also and the only thing that I really need would be better JCMs for extreme pioses
I am not going to bash any PA if I can help it, but as someone who's done modeling AND texturing...just because you're good at one, doesn't mean you're good at the other. Sometimes I wish some PA's would know their limits and team up with someone who's really good at the "other". LOL I point no fingers, because, like I said, I've been on both sides (and I'm definitely better at one than the other, yet not particularly proficient in either...hahaha).
I mean the "barn door" torso mesh of the G9
I have never had any problems with previous generations in Blender, and I couldn't understand why 'everybody' was so exited about the 'better' mesh, when I didn't see anything better in it.
I guess the base figure for G10 will be a solid block of marble, 1x1 meters at the bottom and 2 meters in height because that is what the sculpters start with
Thank you for pointing me towards Eldritch Seeker HD for G9. Was on sale. :)
Ignoring the comments about the poor entity's chest, I meant in what way to the design decisions follow from a "shortcoming" in Zbrush?
It has been said here by PA's that the old non uniform mesh was/is a pain in the behind to sculpt in ZBrush and this new uniform mesh makes sculpting so much easier and that is the reason 'everybody' is so exited about the new mesh => The fact that sculpting a non-uniform mesh in ZBrush is such a pain, makes it a shortcoming of ZBrush.
So, it is better for those who use ZBrush to sculpt the mesh, but for the user the benefits of the new torso mesh are not there, not even when the user is making morphs in Blender.
I understood the comments about non-uniform mesh to be general, not tied to a specific tool or workflow.
I come with 35 years of stress engineer's perspective on meshes. I started working with surface meshes in 1988, at a time when 200 elements/facets would bring a PC to its knees, to meshes now when 500k in a piece part in an assembly is not unusual.
It's usually better NOT to have a uniform mesh, as it's best to increase mesh density in areas of high deflection/ stretch or where extra detail is needed. Also, it's useful to have to element/facet edges tracing the line of surface discontinuities - think edge of rib cage to stomach. This enables different stiffnesses to be allocated on each side of the discontinuity for better deflected shape. The sort of thing seen so often in DS between stiffer and softer parts of a figure. It really seems lessons that were hard learnt in the past have been ditched wholesale.
The rib cage edge line is sensibly visible as a curve in the G3/G8 mesh, but not in G9. This makes it harder to define the abs as the line will be passing across facets along diagonal corners.. That's exceedingly poor modelling practice, because to get any form of faithfulness to human shapes you need to bump up the sub-d when more thoughtful facet orientation would mean you don't need to. Just wrong. I am aware that you can get away with catastrophically bad meshes in rendering compared to stress analysis in engineering, but let's just say: Had an engineer produced a stress model for me that was as poorly though out as G9, I'd have sent them away with a flea in their ear when I wouldn't have with G3/G8.
Regards,
Richard.
Actually, more uniform mesh makes for easier modeling and sculpting in Blender too. Any 3d editor/sculpting tool works better with uniform mesh.
It's just that G9 is more convenient for building using it, but not always more convenient for average end user.
As usual as it is with designing anything, whether you prefer G8 or G9 boils down to what trade offs you can live with.
I think the users who prefer the previous genesis figures probably don't render many clothed
I find G9 is great as a mannequin especially autofitting compared to the forerunners
Uhm... Nope. Because unless the PA is taking care of JCMs on their G9 character, the default body bends can look unsightly even if the character wears anything exposing knees and shoulders. Which means tank tops and shorter skirts as well.
It's not helped by large share of new G9 outfits again being lingerie, swimwear or summer clothes.
Not that kind of a girl...
xyer0 said:
I am curious as to how this topology would fare for soft-body physics, and if it's what I think it is, means that Daz has something incredible up its sleeve that we don't yet know about! :)
I'd like to add that the only issue I see with edge loops not following the musculature is that it just means you have to be up on your game as far as artistic anatomy is concerned, as most (Myself included) used those guides in past generations as an easy way to follow/sculpt along the outlined muscle landmarks, not so with G9 however... which is not a bad thing if you've learned/mastered artistic anatomy.
It will be a challenge for some PAs though, as not only will you have to start sculpting without those guides, but a lot of PAs specialise in a more idealistic artistic anatomy, and may have a somewhat difficult adjustment period with sculpting a more accurate artistic anatomy that G9 demands!
From what I see, a few vendors are skilled enough to get G9 up to the level we've come to expect. Others, however, aren't solving the intrinsic problems even after several releases. There are other perennial vendors that have not released a single G9 figure yet.
I've noticed the misalignment you mentioned; thanks for giving me a reason.
Given, what speaks against G9, I'd like to see, is a G9 to G8 Cloth/Hair converter.
This one MMX Genesis 9 Clones for All | Daz 3D works well for me for converting clothes from G9 to G8 G8.1 . For example, Eldritch Seeker HD for Genesis 9 | Daz 3D . Didn't try shoes, though.
I have had a number of attempts with G9, and have bought a couple of characters to try out.
True, the surface details and overall body morphs are excellent, and the ability to slide getween genders is really good (I liked in in G1). But try as I might, I don't really like it and keep going back to G8. I know why that has been made, largely to please people using Daz at high level and with cross platform work, but this leaves the 'leisure users' behind. I am not sure if it is just me using these 'out of the box' and not buying various expansions, but there are issues. I find the bending of legs and arms far less realistic than G3 and 8, and more extreme bends give the 'string of sausages' look. The face rigging is so complicated and counter intuative (as it was in G8.1- a backwards lurch as far as I am concerned), that getting a faintly realistic expression takes ages and is really difficult. Maybe that is to sell the (what appear very overpriced) expression packs, but getting a realistic more extreme expression is not worth the effort- the simple sliders and intuative controls of earlier models gave far better results far easier. I am sure that dedicated 3d artists would disagree, but as an occassional user not prepared to spend tens of hours getting used to the controls, it is a nonstarter. There are still very few 'normal' female clothes available for G9 (work suit, simple blouse/shirt etc) and the autofit is sometimes OK (skirts and hair), sometimes poor (tighter tops) and sometimes terrible (looser tops and shoes); all of the settings give dreadful shrink wrapping of the chest. So at the momnent G9 is great for expressionless portraits, characters in fantasy clothes at a distance and nudes in simple poses, but for pretty much anything else, I cannot get results that are anywhere near as good as with G8.
Going by the amount of G8 characters and clothes still being made, I am sure I am not alone.
I find the torso of the masculine characters and the coat hanger shoulders to be a real challenge for me in this generation. Also it is much harder to make the type of characters I'm interested in rendering for some reason. I just can't get the muscles and proportions to look as good as they did using a masculine base.
So for now, I'll probably use genesis 9 for creatures and return to Genesis 8 male.
Is anyone else having this problem autofitting G9 clothes to G3? I almost exclusively use G3 and would like to autofit some of G9's clothes.
FWIW, I did a quick test with a stock Genesis 3 female figure, to which I applied the dForce Medieval Style Outfit for Genesis 9 and the Soft Curls Ponytail for Genesis 9. My process is G8-based, so I haven't done anything to speak of with G3, and I haven't done much with this garment, though I knew it was a complicated set with numerous pieces. I'd have to do some troubleshooting to see what's up with that sleeve hanging on nothing, but generally, MMX seems to have given me a good start. The clothes seem OK, the shoes and accessories are not bad (there's a part of the arrow bag that's offset and I didn't even mess with the loose arrow and bow). If you'd like a specific test, I'll give it a try if I have the item or something similar.
Thank you so much. This helps.
Thanks for testing it. I would mostly be using pants, shirts, and tunics/short dresses. Long dresses and loose sleeves tend to do poorly in autofit anyway, so I stick with the G3F versions of those.
Could you please be more specific? The product would not have passed QA if it did not work on the Genesis 3 figures.
What clothing item(s)
Was the G3 character already posed or in the T-pose?
Were you trying to dForce after fitting the clothes?
Thanks
Its good that they've combined the male and female features again, but Not really liking the pose contols. Take the head for example. The expressions sliders(Happy, angry, sad, etc) have been removed and I can't seem to find the slider to open the mouth UNTIL I figure out I have to select the lower jaw to open the mouth.Why? And I'm somewhat confused as to why there's a closed mouth slider when the mouth is already closed. What's the point of that?
Merged threads.
The compound expressions were mostly in the expressions pack, not the base, as I recal;l 9at least for 8, not sure about 8.1).
The Jaw Open Pose Control should be on the figure too - the name chnage came in with 8.1, as I recall.