Daz Studio 5 development update

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  • ImagoImago Posts: 5,183

    Will all the now-broken animation tools be fixed in thsi new version? It's been five years I'm waiting for a fix for the timeline.

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024

    kyoto kid said:

    ...so above it also recommends "Studio Drivers" but when I check on the Nvidia site for which one is available for the Titan-X it comes up with "No Drivers Found". I then entered  "RTX Titan" and it still gave the same message.

    There are no Studio drivers for Windows 7 

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,727

    Silas3D said:

    ...

    For those asking for continued Win 7 support, bear in mind that Microsoft marked it EOL (end of life) January last year, so you really ought to think about upgrading if you want your systems to stay secure. Even Windows 10 has been marked as EOL for Oct 2025, barely four years away.

    My Win 7 is a stand alone machine with no internet access because of that very reason. It has adequate processing power & graphics capability, not spectacular by current standards but not as 'poor' as you might expect for a 2013 vintage machine. The nVidia latest Win7 compatible driver is 471.something, while DS currently needs 451 minimum. I suspect the earlier versions of DS5 could be Win 7 capable from the graphics side provided nothing else precludes compatibility, and maybe a couple of update versions on from the initial one.

    Regards,

    Richard 

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,195

    kyoto kid said:

    ...so above it also recommends "Studio Drivers" but when I check on the Nvidia site for which one is available for the Titan-X it comes up with "No Drivers Found". I then entered  "RTX Titan" and it still gave the same message.

    My old laptop was a WIN7 machine with a GTX560 in it and I ran it for several years until it finally died without having an issue. I would think as long as your machine keeps chugging along you should be fine without a current update as long as you don't instal a newer version of studio on your computer. 

    Hope that helps a little.

  • Silent WinterSilent Winter Posts: 3,725

    +42 for a Linux version (Daz Studio is the only reason I still have windows - and that's Windows 7 on my offline work/render machine). While I'm sure Daz could do a Linux version, it would mean they'd have to support it. I think we heard before, unofficially perhaps, that there just isn't a big enough user-base to make it worthwhile. Then again, chicken-egg, Studio could be a leader there.

     

    Happy to see DS5 coming along, pre-beta won't expect too many interesting features but once the core is stable, I'm sure there are plans to add good stuff to it.

  • DVoidDVoid Posts: 40

    shadowhawk1 said:

    Core support… Currently Studio only uses the first core and the more advanced the cores like the i9 are actually slower than the i7, will this be addressed in 5.0?

    The problem isn't the software, in this regard. Some tasks can't be multi threaded. Some things can only be done on a single thread. For instance file saving and loading can only be done by a single thread. General interface interactions can also only be done on a single thread. The things that are currently single threaded will likely remain single threaded purely because of logical restrictions, not because the code is old. 

  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 872
    edited July 2021

    Silas3D said:

    This is fantastic news, I've had to hold off upgrading my iMac for the last two OS versions and also hold off upgrading hardware because of no DS support. Amazing!

    For those asking for continued Win 7 support, bear in mind that Microsoft marked it EOL (end of life) January last year, so you really ought to think about upgrading if you want your systems to stay secure. Even Windows 10 has been marked as EOL for Oct 2025, barely four years away.

    Haha.  This is getting like the matrix now.  Yeah that matrix.

    Win10 users (and soon Win11) trying to pull everyone along.  FYI, July 7th's 2021 Window's alert scream re: windows print spooler exposure includes a patch for the Defunct Win7.  Crazy hey.

    And yeah i use different means.  Would be nice if Daz offers a linux version.  But instead we seem stuck at the chicken-egg issue with Linux because it seems harder to make mainstream.

    Seems conclusive that DAZ decided that there is enough $ to justify the MAC-compatibility conversion.  Hope that is correct given many MAC user orientations, or so they were.

    Always some kind soul who likes WIN auto-updates and thinks ALL of us should be like him/her.  And we should update like them.  
    Do have Win10Pro and it's not my computer despite many counter-measures.  
    As KyotoKid wrote about Win10Enterprise access - would be nice, but suspect with new Win11 requirements we move closer to the matrix.  
    Too many won't care.

    And finally, add my voice to the thanks for letting us know about Daz update.

    Hope very much that any scripts (like VisualMenus or my custom scripts) will continue to work or with perhaps some heads up for easier-quicker changes so not left scrambling.
    Do hope that DS 5.0 means you guys will make more money, and that sooner, rather than later, we have some more features that many have hoped for and requested, and not just MAC sync for now.
    Good luck DS team.

     

    Post edited by Saxa -- SD on
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500

    shadowhawk1 said:

    Here are a few things that I saw in the announcement that concern me and haven’t been properly addressed yet:

    No backwards compatibility… Is this just for the add ons or will this also mean that all products going forward will be 5.0 only?

    Cost/Subscription… In this world of cloud based software subscriptions is 5.0 going to remain free, or will daz be following the market trend and going cloud based subscription as well?

    If it is going to be a cloud based subscription, will there be a free version that has reduced abilities and a Pro or subscription version that gives you full access to the program?

    Core support… Currently Studio only uses the first core and the more advanced the cores like the i9 are actually slower than the i7, will this be addressed in 5.0?

     

    Subscription would be the end of the line for me. I have enough content to play with 4.x for a good while and, meanwhile, I'll finally make the effort and learn Blender. 

  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 872
    edited July 2021

    Imago said:

    Will all the now-broken animation tools be fixed in thsi new version? It's been five years I'm waiting for a fix for the timeline.

    Would be interesting to hear DAZ`s long-term animation vision.   Worry resources are limited and that the Bridges are the stop-gap for a long-time. ie. Use Maya, Blender etc.

    Post edited by Saxa -- SD on
  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,195

    marble said:

    shadowhawk1 said:

    Here are a few things that I saw in the announcement that concern me and haven’t been properly addressed yet:

    No backwards compatibility… Is this just for the add ons or will this also mean that all products going forward will be 5.0 only?

    Cost/Subscription… In this world of cloud based software subscriptions is 5.0 going to remain free, or will daz be following the market trend and going cloud based subscription as well?

    If it is going to be a cloud based subscription, will there be a free version that has reduced abilities and a Pro or subscription version that gives you full access to the program?

    Core support… Currently Studio only uses the first core and the more advanced the cores like the i9 are actually slower than the i7, will this be addressed in 5.0?

     

    Subscription would be the end of the line for me. I have enough content to play with 4.x for a good while and, meanwhile, I'll finally make the effort and learn Blender. 

    It would be for me as well. At one point in time studio had a free version and a 'PRO' version that had to be purchased in order to unlock its full program. With all the major programs going cloud based subscription it seems like a reasonable question to ask at this point.

  • SeraSera Posts: 1,675

    Chumly said:

    I am hoping that the PC DS5 Version does something to reward those who have spent tons of money/have large Character Libraries... specifically, address the load time penalty for those with lots of assets.  There are several threads here at the forum discussing extremely long load times...5, 10, 20+ Minute load times.

    The only work around currently is to shed assets and/or NOT BUY MORE.... 

    Most of us have multi-core processors, I am hoping that DS5 takes advantage of Multi-threading capabilities...   or sumthin'

    There's a free script to turn off morphs you don't need to load every time: https://3doutlaw.com/home/?page_id=631

    You just check and uncheck boxes for morphs whenever you need to change what loads. 

     

     

  • alexhcowleyalexhcowley Posts: 2,387

    shadowhawk1 said:

    marble said:

    shadowhawk1 said:

    Here are a few things that I saw in the announcement that concern me and haven’t been properly addressed yet:

    No backwards compatibility… Is this just for the add ons or will this also mean that all products going forward will be 5.0 only?

    Cost/Subscription… In this world of cloud based software subscriptions is 5.0 going to remain free, or will daz be following the market trend and going cloud based subscription as well?

    If it is going to be a cloud based subscription, will there be a free version that has reduced abilities and a Pro or subscription version that gives you full access to the program?

    Core support… Currently Studio only uses the first core and the more advanced the cores like the i9 are actually slower than the i7, will this be addressed in 5.0?

     

    Subscription would be the end of the line for me. I have enough content to play with 4.x for a good while and, meanwhile, I'll finally make the effort and learn Blender. 

    It would be for me as well. At one point in time studio had a free version and a 'PRO' version that had to be purchased in order to unlock its full program. With all the major programs going cloud based subscription it seems like a reasonable question to ask at this point.

    I would be very surprised indeed if DAZ started charging for Studio.  The current business mode, with the profits coming from content sales, has clearly been a huge success.

    Cheers,

    Alex. 

  • Daz Jack TomalinDaz Jack Tomalin Posts: 13,421

    With all the major programs going cloud based subscription it seems like a reasonable question to ask at this point.

    How many have gone from free to subscription models though?

    I'm not sure what makes people think Daz are going down that path.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,094

    PerttiA said:

    kyoto kid said:

    ...so above it also recommends "Studio Drivers" but when I check on the Nvidia site for which one is available for the Titan-X it comes up with "No Drivers Found". I then entered  "RTX Titan" and it still gave the same message.

    There are no Studio drivers for Windows 7 

    ...bugger, thanks.

    Feeling W7 was the last "true" OS MS ever released as it does exactly what it supposed to do without all the bloat and unwanted fluff. 

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,195

    Daz Jack Tomalin said:

    With all the major programs going cloud based subscription it seems like a reasonable question to ask at this point.

    How many have gone from free to subscription models though?

    I'm not sure what makes people think Daz are going down that path.

    I am not going to speculate or guess about other software as they are not being discussed on this thread, and I am an end user and don't have the numbers or information to speculate on your question. All I am asking is will 5.0 remain a free to download unthrottled program or are there plans to go back to the free/pro format that studio once was? 

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,953

    I don't mind subscriptions with a perpetual fallback license, like the one Jetbrains offer:

    https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207240845-What-is-a-perpetual-fallback-license-

    Allegorhitmic (Substance Painter etc.) used to have something like that, but that sadly ended when Adobe swallowed them.

     

     

  • oomuoomu Posts: 175
    edited July 2021

    just telling:

    return of mac compatibility is massively huge to me. and so it's why it matters a lot ;)

    Post edited by oomu on
  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024

    Silent Winter said:

    +42 for a Linux version (Daz Studio is the only reason I still have windows - and that's Windows 7 on my offline work/render machine). While I'm sure Daz could do a Linux version, it would mean they'd have to support it. I think we heard before, unofficially perhaps, that there just isn't a big enough user-base to make it worthwhile. Then again, chicken-egg, Studio could be a leader there.

    I'm in the same situation, everything else that I use at home can already be found on Linux. DS is the last one keeping me on Windows, and I have no intention to install W10/11 on my machine, and it has nothing to do with outdated/old hardware or the costs involved (not going to do it even if I was given money to do it).

    The reasons are same that made people buy PC's instead of MAC's at the end of 80's, the PC let the user be in charge and decide what kind of computer he/she would build/buy and what to do with it.
    For the past 20+ years MS has been jelous of Apple, trying to take control, only allowing the user to do what MS allows. What we can read about W11, makes us believe that they have finally achieved their goal (Requirement for a built-in camera in laptops for what purpose?...), but W10 wasn't that far away from it either.

    It's the same as with the phones... There are people that just Have to Have the latest version of whatever "Smart" phone, because it is a way for them to show others they are on the bleeding edge, even though they have problems using any applications or even turning it on, whereas a phone for me is a device that my 80-year old mother can contact me with, I have no other use for a phone and that's why the old Nokia with real buttons, small size and a battery lasting a week, fits my needs for a phone perfectly, for anything else, I'm sitting 16+ hours every day in front of a real computer with 3 monitors for working space... Why would I need a device that has too small display to see anything, but is too big to fit in my side pocket without causing serious harm to my yet to be manufactured offspring?

    Linux support would give us "control freaks" and "nerds" an update path to jump off the MS train completely and still allowing us to continue using DS, for which many have purpose built their computers for.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,094
    edited July 2021

    ...+1

    I have an old LG smartphone which is smaller than the current ones.  As it can only run Android 5.1, useful apps (like my local grocery market ones and our transit system's fare app) will no longer run on it.  For the most part, I pretty much treat it as a phone instead of a personal digital device or "pocket computer" and to that end have a fairly barebones month to month plan (limited minutes and meagre amount of data per month).  I primarily need it for contacts and emergencies so not going out and spending hundreds on the latest fancy model. It works, it does the job it is supposed to, that's all I need.

    Crikey, I still have my old flip phone, but 3G (which they use) is being phased out by the end of the year.  As it is no longer in daily use (I primarily use it as my alarm clock) the battery holds a charge for just over two weeks in spite of how old it is.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • Daz Jack TomalinDaz Jack Tomalin Posts: 13,421

    shadowhawk1 said:

    Daz Jack Tomalin said:

    With all the major programs going cloud based subscription it seems like a reasonable question to ask at this point.

    How many have gone from free to subscription models though?

    I'm not sure what makes people think Daz are going down that path.

    I am not going to speculate or guess about other software as they are not being discussed on this thread, and I am an end user and don't have the numbers or information to speculate on your question. All I am asking is will 5.0 remain a free to download unthrottled program or are there plans to go back to the free/pro format that studio once was?

    I've certainly heard nothing, and have no reason to even suspect that's being contemplated.

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,195

    PerttiA said:

    Silent Winter said:

    +42 for a Linux version (Daz Studio is the only reason I still have windows - and that's Windows 7 on my offline work/render machine). While I'm sure Daz could do a Linux version, it would mean they'd have to support it. I think we heard before, unofficially perhaps, that there just isn't a big enough user-base to make it worthwhile. Then again, chicken-egg, Studio could be a leader there.

    I'm in the same situation, everything else that I use at home can already be found on Linux. DS is the last one keeping me on Windows, and I have no intention to install W10/11 on my machine, and it has nothing to do with outdated/old hardware or the costs involved (not going to do it even if I was given money to do it).

    The reasons are same that made people buy PC's instead of MAC's at the end of 80's, the PC let the user be in charge and decide what kind of computer he/she would build/buy and what to do with it.
    For the past 20+ years MS has been jelous of Apple, trying to take control, only allowing the user to do what MS allows. What we can read about W11, makes us believe that they have finally achieved their goal (Requirement for a built-in camera in laptops for what purpose?...), but W10 wasn't that far away from it either.

    It's the same as with the phones... There are people that just Have to Have the latest version of whatever "Smart" phone, because it is a way for them to show others they are on the bleeding edge, even though they have problems using any applications or even turning it on, whereas a phone for me is a device that my 80-year old mother can contact me with, I have no other use for a phone and that's why the old Nokia with real buttons, small size and a battery lasting a week, fits my needs for a phone perfectly, for anything else, I'm sitting 16+ hours every day in front of a real computer with 3 monitors for working space... Why would I need a device that has too small display to see anything, but is too big to fit in my side pocket without causing serious harm to my yet to be manufactured offspring?

    Linux support would give us "control freaks" and "nerds" an update path to jump off the MS train completely and still allowing us to continue using DS, for which many have purpose built their computers for.

     I use a windows machine but you have a pretty compelling case, I hope that you and all the others requesting Linux support are heard.

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,195

    Daz Jack Tomalin said:

    shadowhawk1 said:

    Daz Jack Tomalin said:

    With all the major programs going cloud based subscription it seems like a reasonable question to ask at this point.

    How many have gone from free to subscription models though?

    I'm not sure what makes people think Daz are going down that path.

    I am not going to speculate or guess about other software as they are not being discussed on this thread, and I am an end user and don't have the numbers or information to speculate on your question. All I am asking is will 5.0 remain a free to download unthrottled program or are there plans to go back to the free/pro format that studio once was?

    I've certainly heard nothing, and have no reason to even suspect that's being contemplated.

    Jack, my post and replies are not meant to stir the pot or create fracus, I guess I will wait to see if @DAZ_RAWB answers them.

  • 4.15.02 is the current general release.

    4.15.04 is the current public beta.

    Will there be a final release of 4.15 ( 4.16? ), please, or has development work on this series now ceased?

    Thanks. :)

     

     

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 9,500

    If Daz Studio will run natively on Apple M1 or higher CPUs, than I will be considering getting Apple computer (first time in my life).

    Just to see rendering on Apple M1 GPU is worth to wait for...

     

  • DoctorJellybeanDoctorJellybean Posts: 8,504

    captainklutz_a2ec859073 said:

    4.15.02 is the current general release.

    4.15.04 is the current public beta.

    Will there be a final release of 4.15 ( 4.16? ), please, or has development work on this series now ceased?

    Thanks. :)

    Development work of 4.15.x is still ongoing.

  • ImagoImago Posts: 5,183

    Saxa -- SD said:

    Imago said:

    Will all the now-broken animation tools be fixed in thsi new version? It's been five years I'm waiting for a fix for the timeline.

    Would be interesting to hear DAZ`s long-term animation vision.   Worry resources are limited and that the Bridges are the stop-gap for a long-time. ie. Use Maya, Blender etc.

    I'm making animations since long, I started with DAZ Studio 3. Animating is really good until you stay with 4.12.0.86 where the timeline and the plugin/scripts still works fine. Any other release after that got broken timeline, sadly.
    I never used AniBlocs, too few options with them, I prefer make my own animations and stuff, so a working timeline is a must.

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    j cade said:
    I pretty sure you can still download daz studio 3 and 2 so I see limited reason to doubt that.

    Sure, but only the final versions. There's always a chance, however small, that there may be another 4.x build inbetween, and this final 4.x build may break something in the 3Delight ecosystem that won't get fixed (there are bugged "RSL" shader mixer blocks despite reporting them; there also was a game-breaking shader builder bug once that came seemingly out of nowhere, and I'm incredibly thankful that it got fixed, and quite fast - but it might've been in the pre-Iray days, I don't remember for sure, so I can't vouchsafe a similar bug will get any attention these days).

    So I'd rather be safe than sorry and back up while the software works fine for my purposes.

  • DVoidDVoid Posts: 40

    Mustakettu85 said:

    j cade said:

    I pretty sure you can still download daz studio 3 and 2 so I see limited reason to doubt that.

    Sure, but only the final versions. There's always a chance, however small, that there may be another 4.x build inbetween, and this final 4.x build may break something in the 3Delight ecosystem that won't get fixed (there are bugged "RSL" shader mixer blocks despite reporting them; there also was a game-breaking shader builder bug once that came seemingly out of nowhere, and I'm incredibly thankful that it got fixed, and quite fast - but it might've been in the pre-Iray days, I don't remember for sure, so I can't vouchsafe a similar bug will get any attention these days).

    So I'd rather be safe than sorry and back up while the software works fine for my purposes.

    Whatever other builds come out after the current stable one, will eventually make it into the stable build. I very highly doubt they're going to work on fixing things and just leave it in beta and not push it to stable so everyone can use it. 

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    edited July 2021
    DVoid said:

    Whatever other builds come out after the current stable one, will eventually make it into the stable build. I very highly doubt they're going to work on fixing things and just leave it in beta and not push it to stable so everyone can use it. 

    Could you please re-read what I wrote? I wrote that there is a chance that any new build might introduce a 3Delight-related bug that will remain forever overlooked.

    Like the wrong BSDF type assignment for the Oren-Nayar shading model in the shader mixer brick.

    Like the extra AttributeEnd inserted into the RIB stream when you instance a subdivided prop - killing shadow casting by those instances.

    These bugs have zero bearing on the dominant Iray ecosystem, so they haven't been addressed in years. And while I can outmaneuver the issue with instances by manual RIB editing, the BSDF type bug made shader mixer unusable for PBR shading - no big deal for me personally, but it basically prevented most other people from playing with "3Delight proper" stuff at least 2014 onwards.

    But if a DS internal bug breaks shader builder or scripted rendering, then it would be the end of my using the software.

    Safe than sorry, again.

    Post edited by Mustakettu85 on
  • karlkarl Posts: 71

    I'd love to see Daz get a Linux version. I currently dual boot Windows 7 and Linux (ZorinOS) and am working towards shifting fully to Linux. I transitioned from Photoshop to Gimp, and MS Office to Libre Office. I already use Firefox and Thunderbird. I think Daz is the only thing I'd still use Windows for. I have a laptop with Windows 10 but hate that OS, which is why I stuck to Win 7 until I can fully migrate to Linux. Daz Linux would be the game changer for me (or at least, a version that uses some kind of Proton tech to run the Windows version in Linux).

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