Daz Studio 5 development update

Bejaymac

ghastlycomic said:

Will we finally get proper FBX and DAE import as well as export?

I doubt it, the issue with FBX/DAE is part DAZ part every other idiot devteam.

To understand why they don't work requires some idea on how figures work in DS4, to keep it simple you start with a mesh, parented to it is the root node of the skeleton, somewhere inbetween is the weight mapping, morphs are stored in the mesh as that is the only place they can work, pose controls are also stored there as that's the easiest way of accessing the skeleton.

The import plugins need to be able to convert any rigged item into the above form, basically a very basic version of Genesis 1.

The problem is that the plugins need the contents of the files in a specific order for that to happen. <-- this is the DAZ part of the problem.

That isn't a problem with Poser CR2, open any couple of CR2 and compare them and you'll find the same sections in the same areas in all of them.

Originally FBX and DAE were meant to be universal formats, an easy way to transfer mesh and rigging between different software. This is the part were every other idiot devteam comes into it, they took the base specifications for the formats, butchered the crap out of them, and rewrote them for their own softwares needs, turning a universal format into a software specific format.

Autodesk created the FBX format, and I use their FBX toolkits, I can load DS created FBX in them without any issues, can't load any FBX made in Blender though.

 

Havos

kyoto kid said:

Richard Haseltine said:

GiGi_7 said:

Richard Haseltine said:

 

The SDK will continue to be C++, the Scripting engine will still be ECMAscript. Both will, of course, have updates and changes.

¿JavaScript?

Javascript (and ActionScript, and others) are ECMA scripts, so close but not identical.

...however most sites are dumping JavaScript  

This is news to me. There are hundreds of sites that rely on Javascript, and I have not heard anything about them removing this.

Active X, and flash plug-in, which were sort of javascript rivals have both been dumped almost everywhere.

Maybe you heard that sites are dumping Java, rather than Javascript, which is true, although in reality Java was removed as part of the web user interface on most sites years ago. Behind the scenes though, in servers etc, Java is still used massively.

wsterdan

Havos said:

kyoto kid said:

Richard Haseltine said:

GiGi_7 said:

Richard Haseltine said:

 

The SDK will continue to be C++, the Scripting engine will still be ECMAscript. Both will, of course, have updates and changes.

¿JavaScript?

Javascript (and ActionScript, and others) are ECMA scripts, so close but not identical.

...however most sites are dumping JavaScript  

This is news to me. There are hundreds of sites that rely on Javascript, and I have not heard anything about them removing this.

Active X, and flash plug-in, which were sort of javascript rivals have both been dumped almost everywhere.

Maybe you heard that sites are dumping Java, rather than Javascript, which is true, although in reality Java was removed as part of the web user interface on most sites years ago. Behind the scenes though, in servers etc, Java is still used massively.

I can't speak to internet usage trends, but Javascript is still very much a going concern for many of the production progams I use, which includes many of the Adobe Creative applications.

-- Walt Sterdan 

Richard Haseltine

Bejaymac said:

ghastlycomic said:

Will we finally get proper FBX and DAE import as well as export?

I doubt it, the issue with FBX/DAE is part DAZ part every other idiot devteam.

To understand why they don't work requires some idea on how figures work in DS4, to keep it simple you start with a mesh, parented to it is the root node of the skeleton, somewhere inbetween is the weight mapping, morphs are stored in the mesh as that is the only place they can work, pose controls are also stored there as that's the easiest way of accessing the skeleton.

The import plugins need to be able to convert any rigged item into the above form, basically a very basic version of Genesis 1.

The problem is that the plugins need the contents of the files in a specific order for that to happen. <-- this is the DAZ part of the problem.

That isn't a problem with Poser CR2, open any couple of CR2 and compare them and you'll find the same sections in the same areas in all of them.

Originally FBX and DAE were meant to be universal formats, an easy way to transfer mesh and rigging between different software. This is the part were every other idiot devteam comes into it, they took the base specifications for the formats, butchered the crap out of them, and rewrote them for their own softwares needs, turning a universal format into a software specific format.

Autodesk created the FBX format, and I use their FBX toolkits, I can load DS created FBX in them without any issues, can't load any FBX made in Blender though.

The Daz Studio system of having modifiers belong to the geometry is, as far as I know, pretty common - it's the Poser system which is somewhat unusual.

alexhcowley

kyoto kid said:

Richard Haseltine said:

GiGi_7 said:

Richard Haseltine said:

 

The SDK will continue to be C++, the Scripting engine will still be ECMAscript. Both will, of course, have updates and changes.

¿JavaScript?

Javascript (and ActionScript, and others) are ECMA scripts, so close but not identical.

...however most sites are dumping JavaScript  

Having actually worked with Javascript, this doesn't surprise me. 

Incidentally, does anyone know if ECMAscript processes the following correctly?

If a = b

Javascript does not!

Cheers,

Alex.

 

Richard Haseltine

alexhcowley said:

kyoto kid said:

Richard Haseltine said:

GiGi_7 said:

Richard Haseltine said:

 

The SDK will continue to be C++, the Scripting engine will still be ECMAscript. Both will, of course, have updates and changes.

¿JavaScript?

Javascript (and ActionScript, and others) are ECMA scripts, so close but not identical.

...however most sites are dumping JavaScript  

Having actually worked with Javascript, this doesn't surprise me. 

Incidentally, does anyone know if ECMAscript processes the following correctly?

If a = b

Javascript does not!

Cheers,

Alex.

What is correctly?

if ( a = b ) {

code

}

will execute code if b is true - you are performing an assignment, and the result is used as the test for the if condition. If you want to test for equality without changing a of b then you need

if ( a == b ) {

code

}

Look at this example, which seems to give the results I expect:

a = 0;b = 0;print( "----- b = 0 -----" );// Compare a and b - they are the sameif ( a == b ) {	print ( "Hello World!" );}// Assign b to a, the ersult is zero so this won't execute the codeif ( a = b ) {	print (" hello" );}// compare a and b, they still match so this will executeif ( a == b ) {	print ( "world");}a = 0;b = 1;print( "----- b = 1 -----" );// compare a and b - they are different so the code will not executeif ( a == b ) {	print ( "Hello World!" );}// assign b to a, the result is 1 so the code will executeif ( a = b ) {	print (" hello" );}// compare a and b, they are now the same so the code will executeif ( a == b ) {	print ( "world");}

 

shootybear

Changing the topic somewhat: I wouldn't hate Daz 5 if it supported 2 (or more) collision sources for things like the smoothing modifier.

hjake

shootybear said:

Changing the topic somewhat: I wouldn't hate Daz 5 if it supported 2 (or more) collision sources for things like the smoothing modifier.

Wouldn't supporting multiple collision sources exponentially increase calculations? How would that effect performance? How many scenarios that require muiltiple sources to smooth one mesh over another mesh where the first mesh has to interact with a third mesh?

These are questions not veiled criticisms.

hjake

Richard Haseltine said:

hjake said:

DAZ_Rawb said:

Hi everyone. Drum roll please...

As Director of Technology for Daz 3D, I wanted to give you some big news.  The Daz Studio team has been hard at work on a massive foundation change for Daz Studio that will be released as Daz Studio 5! Our project has been the #1 priority for the team for quite some time now, and it's almost done. Since we know how important getting a Mac version of Daz Studio is to all of you, we are switching up our release plans (from our normal releases) to get you a look at the upcoming Daz Studio 5 as soon as possible.

Details of the upcoming Daz Studio 5 early-access Pre-Beta:
- Release timing for this early-access preview is coming soon, at the very end of this month (July) or sometime next month (August).
- This will be a pre-beta release. Normally we wait until the software is completely finished before releasing it.
- Major Update will be Daz Studio release running for Macs, no other major features in the Pre-Beta.
- All Plugins and some scripts will be broken. The SDK won't be available with this first release, but will be following it up at a later date. Some other less used features won't work at launch, but will be coming online throughout the year.
- This release will work on at least x86 Macs (with both Filament and Iray). We are still investigating if this initial early-access release will run either natively or through emulation on M1 macs, but M1 support will come during the continued development of Daz Studio 5.
- It will install into a new location, so you can run it along your current Daz Studio (release/beta) without problems.

As for the final Daz Studio 5 release:
- The timeline for this is to have it out near the very end of this year.
- Features and enhancements will be rolling in through the rest of the year.
- Anyone who has Daz Studio 4 in their account will be able to keep it. You'll be able to continue to download and use it for the foreseeable future.

I hope everyone is just as excited about Daz Studio 5 as we are.

To DAZ_Rawb (or anyone else who could answer these questions)

1) Will DAZ officially announce the chosen SDK scripting language as soon as is it chosen? Prior to its release.

2) Will DAZ be using Qt 5 or Qt 6? If Qt 5, why not Qt 6?

The SDK will continue to be C++, the Scripting engine will still be ECMAscript. Both will, of course, have updates and changes.

Thank you. In that case, it was mentioned in another thread that improved/expanded SDK documentation would greatly enhance plug-in/script development. To that end I would like to volunteer you to use your charm and influence to persuade DAZ_Rawb to get DAZ 3D to hire someone specifically to write the new, improved, lemony fresh, DS SDK document.

Will anyone second my volunteering Richard for this task?

alexhcowley

Richard Haseltine said:

alexhcowley said:

kyoto kid said:

Richard Haseltine said:

GiGi_7 said:

Richard Haseltine said:

 

The SDK will continue to be C++, the Scripting engine will still be ECMAscript. Both will, of course, have updates and changes.

¿JavaScript?

Javascript (and ActionScript, and others) are ECMA scripts, so close but not identical.

...however most sites are dumping JavaScript  

Having actually worked with Javascript, this doesn't surprise me. 

Incidentally, does anyone know if ECMAscript processes the following correctly?

If a = b

Javascript does not!

Cheers,

Alex.

What is correctly?

if ( a = b ) {

code

}

will execute code if b is true - you are performing an assignment, and the result is used as the test for the if condition. If you want to test for equality without changing a of b then you need

if ( a == b ) {

code

}

Look at this example, which seems to give the results I expect:

a = 0;b = 0;print( "----- b = 0 -----" );// Compare a and b - they are the sameif ( a == b ) {	print ( "Hello World!" );}// Assign b to a, the ersult is zero so this won't execute the codeif ( a = b ) {	print (" hello" );}// compare a and b, they still match so this will executeif ( a == b ) {	print ( "world");}a = 0;b = 1;print( "----- b = 1 -----" );// compare a and b - they are different so the code will not executeif ( a == b ) {	print ( "Hello World!" );}// assign b to a, the result is 1 so the code will executeif ( a = b ) {	print (" hello" );}// compare a and b, they are now the same so the code will executeif ( a == b ) {	print ( "world");}

 

Richard,

This is what I expected.  Here's a chunk of RPG IV for you:

If  a = b

and ( c = d or e = f ) ;

  code

Else ;

   code 

Endif ;

Most computer languages have no problems distinguishing between a conditional test and an assignment. 

Cheers,

Alex. 

Richard Haseltine

alexhcowley said:

Richard Haseltine said:

alexhcowley said:

kyoto kid said:

Richard Haseltine said:

GiGi_7 said:

Richard Haseltine said:

 

The SDK will continue to be C++, the Scripting engine will still be ECMAscript. Both will, of course, have updates and changes.

¿JavaScript?

Javascript (and ActionScript, and others) are ECMA scripts, so close but not identical.

...however most sites are dumping JavaScript  

Having actually worked with Javascript, this doesn't surprise me. 

Incidentally, does anyone know if ECMAscript processes the following correctly?

If a = b

Javascript does not!

Cheers,

Alex.

What is correctly?

if ( a = b ) {

code

}

will execute code if b is true - you are performing an assignment, and the result is used as the test for the if condition. If you want to test for equality without changing a of b then you need

if ( a == b ) {

code

}

Look at this example, which seems to give the results I expect:

a = 0;b = 0;print( "----- b = 0 -----" );// Compare a and b - they are the sameif ( a == b ) {	print ( "Hello World!" );}// Assign b to a, the ersult is zero so this won't execute the codeif ( a = b ) {	print (" hello" );}// compare a and b, they still match so this will executeif ( a == b ) {	print ( "world");}a = 0;b = 1;print( "----- b = 1 -----" );// compare a and b - they are different so the code will not executeif ( a == b ) {	print ( "Hello World!" );}// assign b to a, the result is 1 so the code will executeif ( a = b ) {	print (" hello" );}// compare a and b, they are now the same so the code will executeif ( a == b ) {	print ( "world");}

 

Richard,

This is what I expected.  Here's a chunk of RPG IV for you:

If  a = b

and ( c = d or e = f ) ;

  code

Else ;

   code 

Endif ;

Most computer languages have no problems distinguishing between a conditional test and an assignment. 

Cheers,

Alex. 

In Javascript, and as i recall in C and its variants, the if is followed by an expression, which can be anything including an assignment of value, the result of which determines the outcome (which is a single instrcution or instruction block in braces, and can then be followed by an else).

novastrider

My two cents: I'm a slow software adopter (since I don't have the latest hardware and can't risk bugs), so I hope the promise that Daz 4 remains available remains true and there aren't going to be any weird hoops and hurdles to force people into the new thing (a ton of software behaving like that these days, really annoying).

Here's my hopes for Daz 5:
- All old content to keep working. Scripts not working, sure, it happens. But any V4 or Genesis objects and models, for example, should still function like nothing changed, including all their morphs. If it worked in Daz 4, it should work here.
- Better integration to and from other software like Blender and Unreal. Just want to be able to open as many formats as possible without any hassle. I know it's a weird world with licenses and stuff, but one can hope.
- Still hoping for an easier method to add skeletons/rigging to models. Whether it be a Genesis 8 rig to a simple figure or a simply adding two sticks for a simple extra bend option for an arm or hair or door. I know it's possible in Daz and tried reading through tons of guides and videos on how to do it, but I still don't understand it at all. Easy Rig, would be so useful.
- Please, please, pleeaaase keep in mind many people do not have the latest hardware. Keep things as light as possible for those who don't have 64gigs of RAM and GeForce 3070s.

PerttiA

hjake said:

shootybear said:

Changing the topic somewhat: I wouldn't hate Daz 5 if it supported 2 (or more) collision sources for things like the smoothing modifier.

Wouldn't supporting multiple collision sources exponentially increase calculations? How would that effect performance? How many scenarios that require muiltiple sources to smooth one mesh over another mesh where the first mesh has to interact with a third mesh?

These are questions not veiled criticisms.

Maybe referring to something like shirt smoothing over not only the figure but also the pants.

hjake

novastrider said:

My two cents: I'm a slow software adopter (since I don't have the latest hardware and can't risk bugs), so I hope the promise that Daz 4 remains available remains true and there aren't going to be any weird hoops and hurdles to force people into the new thing (a ton of software behaving like that these days, really annoying).

Here's my hopes for Daz 5:
- All old content to keep working. Scripts not working, sure, it happens. But any V4 or Genesis objects and models, for example, should still function like nothing changed, including all their morphs. If it worked in Daz 4, it should work here.
- Better integration to and from other software like Blender and Unreal. Just want to be able to open as many formats as possible without any hassle. I know it's a weird world with licenses and stuff, but one can hope.
- Still hoping for an easier method to add skeletons/rigging to models. Whether it be a Genesis 8 rig to a simple figure or a simply adding two sticks for a simple extra bend option for an arm or hair or door. I know it's possible in Daz and tried reading through tons of guides and videos on how to do it, but I still don't understand it at all. Easy Rig, would be so useful.
- Please, please, pleeaaase keep in mind many people do not have the latest hardware. Keep things as light as possible for those who don't have 64gigs of RAM and GeForce 3070s.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, if you ever used a DAZ Studio version when it was the current version, then the last revision of that version should be in your product library. I have DS versions 2 and 3 stil in my library after all these years. I have no reason to doubt that the last version of DS v4 will be there many years in the future.

Ofcourse I am assuming DAZ won't purchase Autodesk, Adobe, and Apple and then decide not to support DAZ Studio formats any more. I'm kidding ... why would DAZ want to buy a fruit company?!?! 

As a precaution, due to the end of RDNA, Content Paradise, Smith Micro, HiveWire, and many others, I have kept copies of my downloaded files on a backup drive so if a product were to suddenly not be available for download, then I can still install from my backup.

 

hjake

PerttiA said:

hjake said:

shootybear said:

Changing the topic somewhat: I wouldn't hate Daz 5 if it supported 2 (or more) collision sources for things like the smoothing modifier.

Wouldn't supporting multiple collision sources exponentially increase calculations? How would that effect performance? How many scenarios that require muiltiple sources to smooth one mesh over another mesh where the first mesh has to interact with a third mesh?

These are questions not veiled criticisms.

Maybe referring to something like shirt smoothing over not only the figure but also the pants.

Okay, so in that instance you are thinking of an untucked  shirt which goes over the torso and then over the pants? So could you smooth the shirt first over the torso and then over the pants? Can smoothing be cumulative?

Catherine3678ab

I think at this point in the game, I'll be happy if D/S 5 renders, period.

hjake

Catherine3678ab said:

I think at this point in the game, I'll be happy if D/S 5 renders, period.

I am positive it will render period, but commas could be a problem since it involves a curve.  :-)

Catherine3678ab

hjake said:

Catherine3678ab said:

I think at this point in the game, I'll be happy if D/S 5 renders, period.

I am positive it will render period, but commas could be a problem since it involves a curve.  :-)

hahaha ... thanks 

Noah LGP

I'm curious to know more about how Daz Studio 5 will handle this :

• Daz Connect and download failure
• Surface with an IES profile (XZY axis)
• Unstoppable dForce simulation when the object is exploding (Must kill Daz Studio in the Task Manager)

Daedalus-7

I'd like to add my 2c to the conversation. 

The things DAZ 5 should aim for:

Better compatibility with other platforms. This advantageous to DAZ since its assets will be usable in many more projects.

This means, though: 

1. NO HD Blocks. Yes. Not being able export properly and hiding HD features for vendors might have been a thing many years ago, but now it just means "I'm going to get my characters from somwhere else, then". 

2. Better file import/export. 

3. Compatibility with Nvidia Omniverse. It might not be a thing yet (it's in open beta), but....it's proper Real-Time render engine! (sorry, but Filament is garbage) and, collab with a bunch of other platforms. 

PerttiA

DS 5 should only have one folder structure for content libraries, DAZ Connect saving stuff to a completely different structure was a failed experiment which only makes it more difficult and confusing for the new users to understand and others helping them - Everything should be installed to the same place, irrespective of the installation method.

wsterdan

Daedalus-7 said:

This means, though: 

1. NO HD Blocks. Yes. Not being able export properly and hiding HD features for vendors might have been a thing many years ago, but now it just means "I'm going to get my characters from somwhere else, then". 

Sorry, but this makes zero sense to me. Zero.

Currently, people need to buy DAZ's HD characters from the DAZ store, otherwise they are "going to get 'their' characters from somewhere else".

Your plan is to remove the exclusitivity so that anyone can sell DAZ's HD morphs anywhere. Maybe I'm blind, but what you're saying is that the way to increase sales of DAZ HD morphs in the DAZ store is to make it more possible to buy them elsewhere. According to your statement, they're already buying characters elsewhere, your plan is to give them DAZ's assets to make it easier and better for them to keep doing what they're doing? I'm just not seeing more money for DAZ in your plan.

I won't be offended if you explain it to me as if I were a small child, because, honestly, I don't see how that would work any other way. I'm obviously missing something that seems obvious to you.

-- Walt Sterdan  

benniewoodell

Besides IK needing work, copy and pasting keyframes needs an overhaul. Worked great in Keymate but since that was taken away, it's been an absolute mess. And now I'm finding that if I do copy and paste keyframes, there's a 50/50 chance that the program will just sit there and crash if I try to move the cursor. The viewport goes grey, the characters are gone, and the little circle of death for a mouse cursor starts to show up. I just sat here for ten minutes and it didn't come back and I lost about twenty keyframes for the project I'm working on. 

3Don

So much still up in the air! Good to see all the different input, etc. Someone mentioned having older versions of DS available. I 2nd that motion. As a Mac user I am looking forward to better performance. It looks like a new DS, etc. will be a while in getting here & then figuring out which Mac & OS is going to run DS. Until then I know a lot of us are running different older versions of DS. I wanted to get a copy of 4.12 but Daz would not release it. Many of us cannot run the most current version, esp. Mac users. So I am stuck on 4.9. I could upgrade my OS to Hi Sierra and run 4.12, but that would not be "current." Well... it would still be an improvement for Iray renders. Shrug...

Mac Users: Are the current Mac models gonna be good for DS5 or should we wait for the new ones to come out?

 

Noah LGP

PerttiA said:

DS 5 should only have one folder structure for content libraries, DAZ Connect saving stuff to a completely different structure was a failed experiment which only makes it more difficult and confusing for the new users to understand and others helping them - Everything should be installed to the same place, irrespective of the installation method.

 

I hope not because it's easier for me to manage the products when one of them is broken. "1 product = 1 folder" structure should be extended to the custom folders (other shops).

Noah LGP

Will DS5 find 'male' when the search is 'male' ?

Actually DS4 result includes female items.

inquire

3Don said:

Mac Users: Are the current Mac models gonna be good for DS5 or should we wait for the new ones to come out?

I honestly don't know the answer to this. But, as a Mac user, I'm being cautious right now about buying things. I am planning to get a new Mac with the M1 or M2 chips, as soon as a real desktop model comes out, maybe an iMacPro, or a Mac Pro. (Right now, I'm got a 2013 Mac Pro.) But, assuming DS 5 will run on this new machine, just how will these current models (characters), props, settings, clothing items, etc., perform? Will iRay running in CPU be faster than it is now for Mac users? Will Filament work for us, and how good will that be? Will there be other render engines?

retiretomaui

I hope its faster and doesn't crash as often as the older versions do. Stability is a huge issue for Daz.

v3rlon_7354dd516e

Actually, It is quite possible to move projects from Sony Vegas to other video editors.  Just export as XML.  And, Sony Vegas has had exporting since the very beginning. 

 

 

kyoto kid said:

...by "backwards compatibility" this means creating a scene in the 5 pre-beta stays in the 5 pre-beta just like "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas"?

v3rlon_7354dd516e

Add me to the M1 MAc Owners list who would test the pre-beta version.  

 

I can't run anything DAZ at all at the moment, so I have nothing better to do with my DAZ time, unless you count the competing software.  You want me to test that instead?