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When I installed 4.20, I had to do the procedure again as the install put back the folders I zipped. Once I did that, the G8 expressions worked again on 8.1.
ETA: I deleted the original ZIP folders I made before I did the procedure to avoid any issues with the right-click/ZIP process.
Here is what solved it for me.
After one [blessed] week of trying...
My daz was installed on C:
My library was installed on D:
I just merged my library at D: into the one in C:
Now i got every single expression working... /o\
Weird, I must have reinstalled or updated the starter essential files, and forgot to murder those dummy files. Or at least that's the only reason I can think of that they could be back again. I don't use DIM or that other auto installer thing, I manually install everything. I installed a few characters, and decided to take a gander at the log file, see if anything was messed up. G8.0 loaded up in ~45 seconds, no errors in log. G8.1 took about three minutes, and to my horror, there was over 3000 lines of errors, all having to do with expressions. Checked for the dummy files, and yep, there they were. murdered them again, G8.1 loaded in ~45 seconds and all the log errors are gone.
has DAZ ever given us a reason for the existence those dummy files?
I can certainly speculate why they exist but that is forbidden.
I assumed they intended to make new versions, and just used those as place holders till they were finished, but it's been a long ass time since 8.1 dropped, and they are still just dummy files that cripple all our old G8 morphs on the G8.1 peoples.
When can Genesis do this tho
Looks like someone mocapped jim carey movies lol
My own conjecture is that the experession aren't 100% identical since there are some changes that were substancial in how the face works. I have some expressions that don't work even when the dummy files are removed. Hopely, the whole Ghost light thing shows why using a kluge as a solution can lead to unexpected consequences.
Well I finally upgraded, and I'm still messing about trying to get the expressions working again. Actually, I don't care too much about the 8.0 expressions since the 8.1 expressions are mostly better. I care about losing independent movement of the upper and lower eyelids and brow squeeze, and maybe a few others.
I understand that the reason Genesis 8 can't do those things is because I can't do them, and that is true. I know because I even tried, but here's the thing... I don't care. I don't think art should be constrained by reality. That was very philosophical wasn't it? But it's sort of true... :)
Something else that's true is that whatever the reason they are there, almost nobody wants these files. So please Daz, stop putting them back, or at least make crippling the expression system an option for those that can see the point of it, or change your installer to recognise that I deletetd them last time you put them there and take the hint that I really, really don't want them. I would rather be making pictures than messing about with this. Again.
Best get back to hunting down the cloud alias files...
I would assume the old expressions were blocked largely to avoid confusion, though they are complex set-ups ERC-wise so having two sets of expressions might have a noticeable performance impact too.
It is certainly true that they do lead to a fairy messy expressions folder. If I could have just those controls I mentioned I'd be fairly happy. I find I can change the emotion enormously with independent eyelid movement especially the lower eyelids. Actaully, if there's a way to do that, I'd live with the other stuff not working, although brow squeeze would be sorely missed. But I know it should work.
Fortunately, I just found a new lot in...
C:\Users\<Me>\OneDrive\Documents\DAZ 3D\Studio\My Daz Connect Library\data\cloud\1_42071\data\daz 3d\genesis 8\female\morphs\daz 3d
So maybe that's why it's not working. One way to find out...
EDIT: I lied, they were in the folder I moved them to.
But blocking the base expressions also results in huge amounts of PA made expressions not working, leaving a huge amounts on non-functional dials behind - I would say those non-functional dials are way more confusing.
I used to write Windows software in C++ for a living. This surely should be easy, I must be being thick! 1 1/2 later, I still don't have it working.
Do I need to check all these directories for potential alias files and delete any I find? Clearly they won't be where the stuff from other stores goes but there seems to be multiple places Daz looks.
Easiest way I can think of. Install https://www.voidtools.com/downloads/ this search. Blows windows search out of the water. Once installed, right click desktop > Search Everything. Select everything in navigation bar and delete it, then paste this line into the nav bar
\Female 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Base Pose Head\
It will show you everywhere that folder resides. Delete all of the Base Pose Head folders the search pops up.
Repeat for each line
\Female 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Expressions\
\Male 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Base Pose Head\
\Male 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Expressions\
I have got it working. I had these files in three places, located with the useless Windows search that is slow and keeps losing the results.
How did I end up with three? No idea! When I first installed 4.20, I had two Genesis 8.1 pictures in smart content. I uninstalled it, then reinstalled from within Daz, rather than DazCentral. I think that might account for some strangeness. I also had two copies which I think were down to OneDrive messing about with the location of my documents.
Anyway, that's a couple of hours of my life I won't see again. But on the plus side, you told me about VoidTools which looks really nice, so something good has come of it! Thank you!
I have to ask because my level of understanding is securely lower than the average on this thread:
Following this procedure will not alter or remove the tools and advantages of G8.1?
[Written in FNG font--because I am the token effin' new guy]
Doesn't seem so. Expressions for 8.1 that are built using FAC instead of the old morphs seem to function normal to me. I never cared enough to do a side by side test TBH. Written it down on my optional todo list to try out once I have a few hours spare time to mess around.
Sorry to repost here, but has anyone been able to get both 8 and 8.1 expressions working at the same time? I can get one to work or the other, but not both.
Yeah, but only on 8.1 based people though of course. genesis 8 can't see 8.1 stuff.
I'm not worried about 8 to 8.1. I just can't get 8 and 8.1 to work with 8.1 at the same time.
Works AB Ubume HD for Genesis 8.1 Female | Daz 3D With Lancy Character with dForce Hair and Expressions for Genesis 8 Female | Daz 3D
I think they are both working for me. I wonder if you maybe deleted too many files?
By default (no folders removed) 8 expressions work on 8 characters and 8.1 works with 8.1 (naturally). In the 8.1 folder I only remove the expressions and facs expressions. In this case, 8 expressions work on 8 and 8.1 but 8.1 expressions no longer work.
You should have not removed the Facs folder.
AB Ubume HD for Genesis 8.1 Female | Daz 3D with Z Undercover Rollergirl Poses and Expressions for Jada 8.1 | Daz 3D
Why do you remove the FACS expressions? Those are THE G8.1 expressions.
You responded before I finished my post.
Making the G8 base expressions (and any expressions that are using them) work on G8.1 requires removing dummy/placeholder expressions that are installed to G8.1 morph folders - These dummy/placeholder expression files have no other function than to prevent the base G8 expressions from loading.
The dummy/placeholder files are located in;
...\Data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Base Pose Head\ (255 files)
...\Data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Expressions\ (24 files)
...\Data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Male 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Base Pose Head\ (255 files)
...\Data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Male 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Expressions\ (24 files)
Please make sure you are removing the files from G8.1 morph folders and not G8 morph folders.
Note; If you are logging in to DS and letting DAZ Connect (within DS) to install/update your content, you may have these also in an other location that has "\Data\Cloud\" in it's path
Note2; Do not remove any files from "FACS" or "FACSExpressions" folders
No need to speculate, understanding the differences in the systems will tell you why.
Basically every DAZ figure upto and including Genesis 2, used morphs for expressions and visemes etc.
With Genesis 3 DAZ went to full blown facial rigging for everything, with a few dozen SD/HD morphs to add detail that is hard to create with just rigging.
With Genesis 8 they partly slid backwards, expressions became full SD/HD morphs, while visemes and everything else was rigging, but without partial morphs to add detail.
With 8.1 they went back to facial rigging for everything, but this time they went nuts with the partial SD/HD morphs, there are hundreds of them.
The problem is that DAZ have a habit of using the same "Labels" across the generations, G8 has "Angry" as does G8.1, without the blocks in place you will be seeing "Angry (2)" as a single slider.
So two systems being activated at the same time by one slider isn't going to be pretty. That is why those dummy files are there.
Thanks.
PerttiA - where do I send the check. The base pose folder was the piece I was missing. All working now. Thanks much!
Thank you, that's very helpful, a bit of history I wasn't aware of. And yet knowing that inevitably makes me wonder whether they really succeeded and whether there wasn't a better way..
Certainly, it's not pretty when you delete the files, but it was hardly pretty before. I have a whole bunch of expressions that are present, but they don't work. There are also expressions designed for 8.1 that got installed in the 8 folder, and I have no idea which they are.
Would an extra layer in the hierarchy would have allowed them to keep both sets of controls, make it clear which was which?
There are also a few sliders they removed I regard as critical. i don't care that I can't physically do them, as I mentioned above. Put those back, and I wouldn't care about the rest of it. The G8.1 expressions are far, far better.
But all this hunting for and deleting files is all far, far too hard. It feels like it should either just work, or there should be a "Let my G8 expressions work on G8.1" check box in the options. Who, in all honesty, would not set that option? 8.1 may be better, but there's still value in the G8 stuff too.