Anime Toons and Filatoon Shader Q&A

dan_thomas

dan_thomas said:

Mada said:

dan_thomas said:

Filatoon looks promising. But how can I move character's floating eyes? It seems floating eyes always focus camera or perspective view. I am not sure if it is optical illusion as someone suggested because renders showed her eyes looking back at the view. If I can't move her eyes, this is a deal breaker for making visual stories with Filatoon.

First post :)
Q: The eyes create an optical illusion of always looking at the viewer
A: If you load a Toon figure and zero out the anime morph to get the default Genesis and that happens, you can use Toon Iris Depth Left and Right to fix it :)

 

Thanks for your answer but your method seems to fix the iris on center of the eye. How can I move the iris to left/right or up/down after fixing it?

Based on my trials, there is no way to move floating iris as the name implies. The only way to move it is loading non-floating eyes and having them shaded with Filatoon. But not all g9 eyes are properly shaded with Filatoon..

barbult

dan_thomas said:

dan_thomas said:

Mada said:

dan_thomas said:

Filatoon looks promising. But how can I move character's floating eyes? It seems floating eyes always focus camera or perspective view. I am not sure if it is optical illusion as someone suggested because renders showed her eyes looking back at the view. If I can't move her eyes, this is a deal breaker for making visual stories with Filatoon.

First post :)
Q: The eyes create an optical illusion of always looking at the viewer
A: If you load a Toon figure and zero out the anime morph to get the default Genesis and that happens, you can use Toon Iris Depth Left and Right to fix it :)

 

Thanks for your answer but your method seems to fix the iris on center of the eye. How can I move the iris to left/right or up/down after fixing it?

Based on my trials, there is no way to move floating iris as the name implies. The only way to move it is loading non-floating eyes and having them shaded with Filatoon. But not all g9 eyes are properly shaded with Filatoon..

You can select the Left Eye and or Right Eye in the character itself under the Head bone, and adjust the Up-Down and Side-Side. You can also use the Pose Controls. There is no magic.

necroscension

Artini said:

Thanks for the testing, @necroscension

HDRI actually works with FilaToon, just need to experiment more with them.

I see you're getting the pixelation in your hdr as well.

MoreTN

Starship64 said:

MoreTN said:

Starship64 said:

I've been experimenting a bit with using FilaToon for more realistic (non-anime) style illustration art. Here's some samples that I think came out pretty well. The character is Hailey 8.1.

They're very nice - how do you achieve that effect? Is it the standard filatoon shaders or did you have to play with the settings?

Thanks. :)

It's mostly just standard with just a few tweaks, mostly just by trial and error. On the Surfaces tab I darkened the ambient color and adjusted the Shadow Threshold and Shadow Smooth sliders to make the shadows deeper, and I removed the normals map from all the skin surfaces, and increased the Diffuse Overlay Weight on the sclera. After that I selected the Filatoon Node and fiddled with the various controls and buttons on the Parameters tab until I was happy with the way it looked.

The background is from the Skies of iRadiance bundle. I just loaded it, reduced the Environment Intensity, and rotated it until it looked good.

I LOVE that I can experiment and I don't have to wait for the picture to render in order to see what my tweaks do! Heck, this Filatoon might even get me to try animation.

Thanks for the explanation. Seeing some of the images that people are able to achieve, I can see I'm going to have to have a play with Filatoon.

TheNathanParable

dan_thomas said:

Mada said:

dan_thomas said:

Filatoon looks promising. But how can I move character's floating eyes? It seems floating eyes always focus camera or perspective view. I am not sure if it is optical illusion as someone suggested because renders showed her eyes looking back at the view. If I can't move her eyes, this is a deal breaker for making visual stories with Filatoon.

First post :)
Q: The eyes create an optical illusion of always looking at the viewer
A: If you load a Toon figure and zero out the anime morph to get the default Genesis and that happens, you can use Toon Iris Depth Left and Right to fix it :)

Thanks for your answer but your method seems to fix the iris on center of the eye. How can I move the iris to left/right or up/down after fixing it?

The same way you usually move the eyes on regular Genesis 9.

Artini

necroscension said:

Artini said:

Thanks for the testing, @necroscension

HDRI actually works with FilaToon, just need to experiment more with them.

I see you're getting the pixelation in your hdr as well.

I do not see that as a problem for me. Maybe rendering in the higher resolution will help.

Will need to do more tests.

 

TheNathanParable

I haven't tried this myself yet, but I wonder if it might be better to use one of those skydome products rather than a HDRI background, such as Iray Worlds or Worldbase by Magix 101.

https://www.daz3d.com/iray-worlds-skydome

https://www.daz3d.com/the-all-new-worldbase-xt-lushlands

At least then you won't have to worry about the background being pixellated.

necroscension

TheNathanParable said:

I haven't tried this myself yet, but I wonder if it might be better to use one of those skydome products rather than a HDRI background, such as Iray Worlds or Worldbase by Magix 101.

https://www.daz3d.com/iray-worlds-skydome

https://www.daz3d.com/the-all-new-worldbase-xt-lushlands

At least then you won't have to worry about the background being pixellated.

I have the first product, I'll give it a try.

I had attempted using a plane and a sphere to create a background but those pixelated as well. The main reason the pixelation became a problem for me is that the hdr I was trying to use had a painted look that got ruined by the resampling.

Vick 9 | Daz 3D -> I had to render the background using Iray in order to retain the painted look.

(edit) Unfortunately Filament doesn't like the product, I guess because it uses the sky image in both the Emission and Luminance properties in Surfaces (view attachment).

 

TheNathanParable

necroscension said:

TheNathanParable said:

I haven't tried this myself yet, but I wonder if it might be better to use one of those skydome products rather than a HDRI background, such as Iray Worlds or Worldbase by Magix 101.

https://www.daz3d.com/iray-worlds-skydome

https://www.daz3d.com/the-all-new-worldbase-xt-lushlands

At least then you won't have to worry about the background being pixellated.

I have the first product, I'll give it a try.

I had attempted using a plane and a sphere to create a background but those pixelated as well. The main reason the pixelation became a problem for me is that the hdr I was trying to use had a painted look that got ruined by the resampling.

Vick 9 | Daz 3D -> I had to render the background using Iray in order to retain the painted look.

(edit) Unfortunately Filament doesn't like the product, I guess because it uses the sky image in both the Emission and Luminance properties in Surfaces (view attachment).

 

Have you tried applying the Filatoon shader to the backdrop? The default iray shaders may not translate well to filament.

barbult

I frequently get this error message about a missing file when I apply the FilaToon General Shader preset to an Iray clothing item.

necroscension

TheNathanParable said:

necroscension said:

TheNathanParable said:

I haven't tried this myself yet, but I wonder if it might be better to use one of those skydome products rather than a HDRI background, such as Iray Worlds or Worldbase by Magix 101.

https://www.daz3d.com/iray-worlds-skydome

https://www.daz3d.com/the-all-new-worldbase-xt-lushlands

At least then you won't have to worry about the background being pixellated.

I have the first product, I'll give it a try.

I had attempted using a plane and a sphere to create a background but those pixelated as well. The main reason the pixelation became a problem for me is that the hdr I was trying to use had a painted look that got ruined by the resampling.

Vick 9 | Daz 3D -> I had to render the background using Iray in order to retain the painted look.

(edit) Unfortunately Filament doesn't like the product, I guess because it uses the sky image in both the Emission and Luminance properties in Surfaces (view attachment).

 

Have you tried applying the Filatoon shader to the backdrop? The default iray shaders may not translate well to filament.

I applied the general shader and moved the image in the Emission slot to the base slot. Unfortunately the images are being resampled (see attached).

barbult

Iconic Eyes for Genesis 9 Toon product page shows colored irises but the product only loads black and white. How are we supposed to get the colors like are shown on the product page? There is no readme file, either, so no instructions there.

I can color them in the Surfaces pane Base Color, but that seems a little crude, since Daz provided individual color presets for each of the free iris designs they supplied in the Essentials.

SapphireBlue

Thank you barbult and Artini! 

barbult I'm getting that "fabric metallic leather" error dialog too at times - no idea what is throwing out that error. 

 

I've been using some of the older 3Delight skydomes and skyboxes. Some of them come up quite decent like ones from Sandy Bay Seaside Village and Easy Environments: Oasis shown in the examples below, others show more pixelation etc. I tried the Iray Worlds Skydome suggestion from before, but it is not working well at all for me.

 

TheNathanParable

I'm not at my PC right now, so can't try this, but I wonder if this might have anything to do with the texture display size in the Daz studio settings...

TheNathanParable

necroscension said:

TheNathanParable said:

necroscension said:

TheNathanParable said:

I haven't tried this myself yet, but I wonder if it might be better to use one of those skydome products rather than a HDRI background, such as Iray Worlds or Worldbase by Magix 101.

https://www.daz3d.com/iray-worlds-skydome

https://www.daz3d.com/the-all-new-worldbase-xt-lushlands

At least then you won't have to worry about the background being pixellated.

I have the first product, I'll give it a try.

I had attempted using a plane and a sphere to create a background but those pixelated as well. The main reason the pixelation became a problem for me is that the hdr I was trying to use had a painted look that got ruined by the resampling.

Vick 9 | Daz 3D -> I had to render the background using Iray in order to retain the painted look.

(edit) Unfortunately Filament doesn't like the product, I guess because it uses the sky image in both the Emission and Luminance properties in Surfaces (view attachment).

 

Have you tried applying the Filatoon shader to the backdrop? The default iray shaders may not translate well to filament.

I applied the general shader and moved the image in the Emission slot to the base slot. Unfortunately the images are being resampled (see attached). 

Ok, I think I figured out why the mesh skydone is pixellated for you.

These are two renders of Mikey. On the left, I set the "texture resources" option in the Daz Studio preferences to "performance", which makes Mikey's textures pixellated. On the right, I set the option to "quality", which makes them sharper. It's most noticeable around the eyes.

I'm using a iray HDRI background in both of these. It seems these are completely unaffected by this option, but a mesh skydone like the one used in iray worlds or worldbase xt should look better with this option set to "quality". I'll try it out for myself once I get them installed and working.

Censored

TheNathanParable said:

necroscension said:

TheNathanParable said:

necroscension said:

TheNathanParable said:

I haven't tried this myself yet, but I wonder if it might be better to use one of those skydome products rather than a HDRI background, such as Iray Worlds or Worldbase by Magix 101.

https://www.daz3d.com/iray-worlds-skydome

https://www.daz3d.com/the-all-new-worldbase-xt-lushlands

At least then you won't have to worry about the background being pixellated.

I have the first product, I'll give it a try.

I had attempted using a plane and a sphere to create a background but those pixelated as well. The main reason the pixelation became a problem for me is that the hdr I was trying to use had a painted look that got ruined by the resampling.

Vick 9 | Daz 3D -> I had to render the background using Iray in order to retain the painted look.

(edit) Unfortunately Filament doesn't like the product, I guess because it uses the sky image in both the Emission and Luminance properties in Surfaces (view attachment).

 

Have you tried applying the Filatoon shader to the backdrop? The default iray shaders may not translate well to filament.

I applied the general shader and moved the image in the Emission slot to the base slot. Unfortunately the images are being resampled (see attached). 

Ok, I think I figured out why the mesh skydone is pixellated for you.

These are two renders of Mikey. On the left, I set the "texture resources" option in the Daz Studio preferences to "performance", which makes Mikey's textures pixellated. On the right, I set the option to "quality", which makes them sharper. It's most noticeable around the eyes.

I'm using a iray HDRI background in both of these. It seems these are completely unaffected by this option, but a mesh skydone like the one used in iray worlds or worldbase xt should look better with this option set to "quality". I'll try it out for myself once I get them installed and working.

Sorry to barge in, but I just wanted to thank you... aparently I've been working this long and neither I nor my promo artist new about this setting... unfourtunatly we've now gone all the way throuch two toon products wodering why the crisp lines look so pixelated... 

barbult

Censored said:

TheNathanParable said:

necroscension said:

TheNathanParable said:

necroscension said:

TheNathanParable said:

I haven't tried this myself yet, but I wonder if it might be better to use one of those skydome products rather than a HDRI background, such as Iray Worlds or Worldbase by Magix 101.

https://www.daz3d.com/iray-worlds-skydome

https://www.daz3d.com/the-all-new-worldbase-xt-lushlands

At least then you won't have to worry about the background being pixellated.

I have the first product, I'll give it a try.

I had attempted using a plane and a sphere to create a background but those pixelated as well. The main reason the pixelation became a problem for me is that the hdr I was trying to use had a painted look that got ruined by the resampling.

Vick 9 | Daz 3D -> I had to render the background using Iray in order to retain the painted look.

(edit) Unfortunately Filament doesn't like the product, I guess because it uses the sky image in both the Emission and Luminance properties in Surfaces (view attachment).

 

Have you tried applying the Filatoon shader to the backdrop? The default iray shaders may not translate well to filament.

I applied the general shader and moved the image in the Emission slot to the base slot. Unfortunately the images are being resampled (see attached). 

Ok, I think I figured out why the mesh skydone is pixellated for you.

These are two renders of Mikey. On the left, I set the "texture resources" option in the Daz Studio preferences to "performance", which makes Mikey's textures pixellated. On the right, I set the option to "quality", which makes them sharper. It's most noticeable around the eyes.

I'm using a iray HDRI background in both of these. It seems these are completely unaffected by this option, but a mesh skydone like the one used in iray worlds or worldbase xt should look better with this option set to "quality". I'll try it out for myself once I get them installed and working.

Sorry to barge in, but I just wanted to thank you... aparently I've been working this long and neither I nor my promo artist new about this setting... unfourtunatly we've now gone all the way throuch two toon products wodering why the crisp lines look so pixelated... 

You can increase the Anti Aliasing value in Filament Draw Options.

Joe Jarrah

this looks like its going tobe alot of fun, but I'm struggling with how to get a background;  backdrops dont show up and HDRIs are blure into a pastel mush... I would really appreciate any advice.

GRFK DSGN Unlimited

Here's my attempt. Need to work out some issues with the hair but other than that I kind of like it.

necroscension

TheNathanParable said:

necroscension said:

TheNathanParable said:

necroscension said:

TheNathanParable said:

I haven't tried this myself yet, but I wonder if it might be better to use one of those skydome products rather than a HDRI background, such as Iray Worlds or Worldbase by Magix 101.

https://www.daz3d.com/iray-worlds-skydome

https://www.daz3d.com/the-all-new-worldbase-xt-lushlands

At least then you won't have to worry about the background being pixellated.

I have the first product, I'll give it a try.

I had attempted using a plane and a sphere to create a background but those pixelated as well. The main reason the pixelation became a problem for me is that the hdr I was trying to use had a painted look that got ruined by the resampling.

Vick 9 | Daz 3D -> I had to render the background using Iray in order to retain the painted look.

(edit) Unfortunately Filament doesn't like the product, I guess because it uses the sky image in both the Emission and Luminance properties in Surfaces (view attachment).

 

Have you tried applying the Filatoon shader to the backdrop? The default iray shaders may not translate well to filament.

I applied the general shader and moved the image in the Emission slot to the base slot. Unfortunately the images are being resampled (see attached). 

Ok, I think I figured out why the mesh skydone is pixellated for you.

These are two renders of Mikey. On the left, I set the "texture resources" option in the Daz Studio preferences to "performance", which makes Mikey's textures pixellated. On the right, I set the option to "quality", which makes them sharper. It's most noticeable around the eyes.

I'm using a iray HDRI background in both of these. It seems these are completely unaffected by this option, but a mesh skydone like the one used in iray worlds or worldbase xt should look better with this option set to "quality". I'll try it out for myself once I get them installed and working.

The Iray Worlds product uses odd shaped images, so plugging in a new hdri doesn't really work. But I can confirm that if I create a dome from a sphere and plug in an hdri in the Base parameter in Surfaces there's no resampling. I tested with a Cake and Bob 16K hdri and confirm that I can actually see "film grain" instead of pixelation (view attachment). Too bad that setting doesn't apply to the hdri used in Environment Options.

TheNathanParable

necroscension said:

TheNathanParable said:

necroscension said:

TheNathanParable said:

necroscension said:

TheNathanParable said:

I haven't tried this myself yet, but I wonder if it might be better to use one of those skydome products rather than a HDRI background, such as Iray Worlds or Worldbase by Magix 101.

https://www.daz3d.com/iray-worlds-skydome

https://www.daz3d.com/the-all-new-worldbase-xt-lushlands

At least then you won't have to worry about the background being pixellated.

I have the first product, I'll give it a try.

I had attempted using a plane and a sphere to create a background but those pixelated as well. The main reason the pixelation became a problem for me is that the hdr I was trying to use had a painted look that got ruined by the resampling.

Vick 9 | Daz 3D -> I had to render the background using Iray in order to retain the painted look.

(edit) Unfortunately Filament doesn't like the product, I guess because it uses the sky image in both the Emission and Luminance properties in Surfaces (view attachment).

 

Have you tried applying the Filatoon shader to the backdrop? The default iray shaders may not translate well to filament.

I applied the general shader and moved the image in the Emission slot to the base slot. Unfortunately the images are being resampled (see attached). 

Ok, I think I figured out why the mesh skydone is pixellated for you.

These are two renders of Mikey. On the left, I set the "texture resources" option in the Daz Studio preferences to "performance", which makes Mikey's textures pixellated. On the right, I set the option to "quality", which makes them sharper. It's most noticeable around the eyes.

I'm using a iray HDRI background in both of these. It seems these are completely unaffected by this option, but a mesh skydone like the one used in iray worlds or worldbase xt should look better with this option set to "quality". I'll try it out for myself once I get them installed and working.

The Iray Worlds product uses odd shaped images, so plugging in a new hdri doesn't really work. But I can confirm that if I create a dome from a sphere and plug in an hdri in the Base parameter in Surfaces there's no resampling. I tested with a Cake and Bob 16K hdri and confirm that I can actually see "film grain" instead of pixelation (view attachment). Too bad that setting doesn't apply to the hdri used in Environment Options.

This could prove to be a good work around though. If you apply the Filatoon shader to the sky dome and turn off "cast shadows" and "receive shadows", maybe plug the texture into both diffuse and emission, it would still be an adequate background.

AlienRenders

I can do multivariable calculus but I can't figure this out. I set it to filament renderer. I applied the shader to a character. I added a distant light. I set shadows to raytraced. Character is completely black no matter what I try.

edit: Ok, if I increase MatCap Weight to 1, I get color. What is MatCap? And why does it need to be at 1?

edit2: Oh, environment weight also gives color and more definition. All right, this is starting to look good. I really like the outline shell. Wish that worked in iRay even without the toon shading.

edit3: For anyone wanting outlines in iRay, I have a method that isn't too bad.

Outlines with iRay

1. Create a geoshell for your character

2. Set offset distance to 0.2 (0.2 to 0.3)

3. In the geoshell material, set all the weight dials to zero (Diffuse overlay weight, translucency weight, glossy layered weight, etc.)

4. Set Refraction Index and Refraction Weight both to 1 (100%). This will make the shell transparent.

5. Set Top Coat Weight to 1. Set Top Coat Color to black. Scatter only. Roughness to 1. Color Effect to Reflectivity. Reflectivity to 0. Curve 0 to 0. Curve 90 to 2 (need to turn off "use limits" in the gear icon, parameter settings). Curve exponent to 10. Everything else in top coat settings to 0. IOR can remain at 1.5.

6. Cutout opacity to 1

 

If you want darker lines, especially in front of a white background, there are two possible solutions. You can bump up Curve 90 to 3 or higher. It will create a bit more shading though. AND/OR you can duplicate the shell, set an offset about 0.05 larger than the other shell and copy the material. You can add more shells if you want.

You can also lower refraction weight, but it'll make your character darker. I'm mentioning it because it can be a cool effect.

Rareth

I love this new shader 
 

SapphireBlue

So many great tips! Thank you all for sharing! 

I wanted to try a quick and easy way of doing color-halftone in-render. This was done by parenting a plane to the camera textured with a seamless halftone pattern. (Did have a problem with the new toon style multi-style ponytail hair - the style movements aren't really working for me. Have to check it out more...)

N-RArts

I've just been trying to create a scene with Lilith 7, but when I added the Filatoon skin shader, the Lil7's skin turned black.The same thing happened when I added the general and metallic shaders to her clothing (Rocker Outfit for G3F). What could've happened?

Plus what is the "Filatoon - Constant" shader for? I've tried adding it to surfaces, but I can't see any difference. The same goes with LUTs and MATCAPS

 

Space Jingoroh

　When the camera angle is changed, the turnip or hair causes an “I-RO-PA-KA(color flicker)”.

　I don't think it bothers me when I make still images.
　However, it is a problem when creating motion movie animations.

　Is there any way to deal with this?

TEST Movie

Imago

Space Jingoroh said:

　When the camera angle is changed, the turnip or hair causes an “I-RO-PA-KA(color flicker)”.

Try changing the type of shadow in the Filament Draw options pane (you can create it in the "create" menu) and also increase its Map Size, it should solve the most of the problems.

Space Jingoroh

Imago said:

Space Jingoroh said:

　When the camera angle is changed, the turnip or hair causes an “I-RO-PA-KA(color flicker)”.

Try changing the type of shadow in the Filament Draw options pane (you can create it in the "create" menu) and also increase its Map Size, it should solve the most of the problems.

　Thank you very much.

　I set the shadow map size to the largest 16384, shadow Cascades to the largest 4, and shadow type to DPCF, and the flicker is now finer and less noticeable.
　It helped a lot.

　However, it has not disappeared completely.

　The shadow outline keeps jerking and changing.
　The width of the two-tiered shadow changes, and the position and shape of the outline keeps changing.

Test Movie

Artini

AlienRenders said:

I can do multivariable calculus but I can't figure this out. I set it to filament renderer. I applied the shader to a character. I added a distant light. I set shadows to raytraced. Character is completely black no matter what I try.

edit: Ok, if I increase MatCap Weight to 1, I get color. What is MatCap? And why does it need to be at 1?

edit2: Oh, environment weight also gives color and more definition. All right, this is starting to look good. I really like the outline shell. Wish that worked in iRay even without the toon shading.

edit3: For anyone wanting outlines in iRay, I have a method that isn't too bad.

Outlines with iRay

1. Create a geoshell for your character

2. Set offset distance to 0.2 (0.2 to 0.3)

3. In the geoshell material, set all the weight dials to zero (Diffuse overlay weight, translucency weight, glossy layered weight, etc.)

4. Set Refraction Index and Refraction Weight both to 1 (100%). This will make the shell transparent.

5. Set Top Coat Weight to 1. Set Top Coat Color to black. Scatter only. Roughness to 1. Color Effect to Reflectivity. Reflectivity to 0. Curve 0 to 0. Curve 90 to 2 (need to turn off "use limits" in the gear icon, parameter settings). Curve exponent to 10. Everything else in top coat settings to 0. IOR can remain at 1.5.

6. Cutout opacity to 1

 

If you want darker lines, especially in front of a white background, there are two possible solutions. You can bump up Curve 90 to 3 or higher. It will create a bit more shading though. AND/OR you can duplicate the shell, set an offset about 0.05 larger than the other shell and copy the material. You can add more shells if you want.

You can also lower refraction weight, but it'll make your character darker. I'm mentioning it because it can be a cool effect.

Intersting tips  on toons in iRay.

For FilaToon the shadows on the light needs to be set to Deep Shadow Map.

For quickly set up the scene use  Basic FilaToon Environment included in People | Genesis 9 Toon

For me FilaToon is better because of its instant rendering time even with many characters in the scene.

 

 

MoreTN

GRFK DSGN Unlimited said:

Here's my attempt. Need to work out some issues with the hair but other than that I kind of like it.

Love it. Could you share the settings you used please?