Target Helpers?

hrpschrd

Someone once helped me rotate objects using "target helpers". I can't find that animation technique in the Cafe or other tutorial sites.

Anyone know where this is discussed or taught? Or how that is done?

Headwax

use 'point at' modifier on the object to be rotated, under 'behaviours'

hrpschrd

Then what? I can choose the light for example but nothing shows up or happens other than the axis representations get warped.

Headwax

sorry didnt realise your hand was being held out

your question is you want to rotatet an object using target helpers?

put  object in scene, (use a cone, find cone in vertex room, use a cone so you can see which way it p[oints)

put  target helper in scene

move target helper away from object

select object

go to modifiers

go to behaviours

select point at 

chhose in "Towards" section target helper from the drop down list 

as soon as you do this the cone will point at the target helper

fine tune so that th e correct axis is pointing at target helper

move target helper

cone will point at it

engage caps key

click on object

hold down t key for transform

pull one odf the coloured arrows

this will move object's centre point

put it at your desired point of rotation

deselect caps key

move target helper by clicking on it and dragging one of the pretty coloured arrows (hold down t key)

if you moved the target helper obliquely t to the object

then the 

object will move around its new point of rotation

 

 

 

3DAGE

Another method is to Parent an object to the target helper,. so that the target helper can be animated and the object follows that motion.

for example.

If you insert a Primitive,. and a target helper object,.

Move the primitive object to one edge, or corner of the grid space,. (away from the target helper object)

Then,.. in the Scene Instance list,. Drag the Primitive Object onto the Target helper object, to create a Parent / Child relationship.

 

If you move or rotate the target helper object in the Centre of your scene,. then the Object parented to that target,. will also move

For example,.

Add a Spin modifier to the target helper object,. to make the object rotate around your scene.

You can use this technique to animate a camera rotating around a subject,  you can also add another target helper as your Camera (point at) target.

both target helpers can be animated,. and the child object can also be animated

for example a camera mounted on a vehicle, focusing on the driver, then the camera moves around the car changing focus from the driver to the wheels or the road ahead

Hope it helps :)

hrpschrd

Thanks head wax and 3DAGE. I will work on this.

In general, where do you learn this stuff (besides experience)? The help file PDF seems to have only a fraction of the commands and capabilities. The tutorials seem to be a random limited collection. Is this Forum the primary User Manual? Isn't there a Carrarawiki I haven't found?

Headwax

I learnt all my stuff I know from 3dage ;) 

well most of it! 

Step one was printing out the manual.

step two was reading it a few times.

step three is to use caraarra every day 

then ask questions here 

3DAGE

I learned everything from head wax.

and step three, ....but I use Carrara,. ....caraarra is the Australian version. :)

Practical application,. (doing stuff)  is a good way to learn.

having tutorials available is a great help, since they show functions, techniques, or principles which can then be applied in many other ways in your own work.

Experiment.  Try using things you don't normally use,. sometimes that doesn't work well, but it's possible to learn as much from failure as you do from success.

Ask questions

:)

hrpschrd

Ok, here is a question for either/or both of you.

I have trouble with setting the hot point on a small group sometimes. I choose a spin modifier and want to get the hot point aligned on the x-axis for example. Then I use capslock to move the hot point to where I want it from the viewpoint I am using. Then I move the viewpoint to see if it is still aligned in the other axes and the hot point jumps to someplace else. I move it back and the same thing happens. Sometimes the hot point moves way out of frame and I have to go chase it. I have tried turning off the capslock while I change viewpoints but that doesn't matter.

What am I missing here?

WendyLuvsCatz

if you do not do it at frame one you get all sorts of errors

I click this too before trying to align manually

hrpschrd

Thanks, that helps. I am still not finding the spin axes that I want. If I align a part with the red x-axis arrow and then spin on that axis, it moves in a conical path rather than 90 degrees around the x-axis.

I assume I am not setting it up in the right order.

3DAGE

Instead of moving the object axis "hot spot" ,. you can create a target helper object,. position that where you need it,. then parent the object to that helper.

you can animate the (Parent)"helper",. instead of animating the (Child) "object"

maybe a screen shot of what you're doing would help.

Also,. Use the "Quad view" as much as possible when you're positioning stuff

hrpschrd

I think you are suggesting it is easier to use helpers than to set modifiers, and after trying them, I agree!  BTW, I notice there are two axes in "the point at" command with + and - labels. What is the difference?

I liked your idea of using quad view but it seems like after clicking on one of the views, I cannot that move that view in XY to position things more clearly. Actually maybe I should ask the general question: Is the grid intended to be the area where we should be drawing most of our objects? This would make my view question nul.

evilproducer

Modifiers and targets can work together as well.

Quad view will use 2D views, such as front, top, left, right, etc. I don't recall what the defaults are, but you can change the camera/perspective view of any of viewport panes by clicking the white text that says the camera/view in the top left corner of the view pane, and then choosing an option from the drop down menu that appears.

When using the quad view (or any of the multi-pane views), I like one of my panes to be the director's camera, or if I'm trying to frame a shot, the render camera, such as Camera 1 or some other camera I've inserted.

hrpschrd

In the quad view, in one of the views (say the top), I can zoom in/out but I cannot move the view in XY so that I can zoom closer to one of the objects. I want to align objects to each other in all three axes. This would be easier if I could use quad view with zoomed in views of any part of the grid..

Also, when modifying a target helper, I see two sets of axes to spin on with - and +. Why two?

3DAGE

In the 2D views,. you use the "Hand"  "2D Pan tool"  hold (Spacebar) or,. Hold "Alt + Right button and drag" to pan in those views,.

I agree with Evil,. the modifiers can work together with targets or independently, it's not a matter of one is better, it's just different options.

The plus and minus are like a "point at" or "point away from"  (See pics) ,..got carried away making the arrow.  but it illustrates something that's not always obvious if you're using Cubes or Sphere's etc..

Carrara has an "Align" function,.   EDIT / Align, which may help in getting objects arranged correctly in your scene. but once you get used to the Quad view for arranging objects in the scene, it makes much more sense to work that way

 

hrpschrd

Perhaps this should be a new topic but it is part of the same issue of animating moving objects:

Now I have multiple spinning objects that are arranged together visually. BUT, they are not actually connected except as a Group. Like a dog with a wagging tail. If you make the butt wiggle too, the tail is wiggling in space rather than staying connected to the wiggling butt. How do you connect the two at a point so they move in a coordinated way? I have looked in the manual but haven't seen this.

 

evilproducer

Hmmm... Good question. Do you have an example screen shot or two?

Have you tried tracking?

hrpschrd

I am not sure how to get a screen shot here. Apparently I need a public place to put files to transfer here. Maybe I can use DropBox. I am connecting atoms with bonds to form molecules and then rotating some of the parts. I would like to keep the bonds still connected to atoms while rotations occur. Seems like it ought to be possible considering the complex aminations people do here!

I have not used tracking before. I see it in the discussion on Inverse Kinematics. I guess I should think of my molecules as skeletons that need to be connected at joints. I will try that. Any other advise appreciated.

 

evilproducer

For attaching images, look right below where you enter text when posting for, Attach File. Click the text and the browse button will appear. Click that, and navigate to the file on your computer. The formats you can upload that I am aware of are, .jpg, .png and .gif, although I don't know if animated .gifs are still supported.

3DAGE

Parent child hierarchy

you can Parent the "wagging tail" section to the "Wiggling butt" model,. or you could parent the tail to a target "helper" object,(positioned at the tail's base) which is set to track the motion of the Wiggling Butt model,.

You can Parent one Group to another or create groups of groups,. or use Target helpers to make one group follow (track) the motion of another group. or to parent several groups to a single target helper object

If you're greating multiple animated objects in a group,. you should make Animated Groups ,. this will enable an NLA track for the group, and NLA can simplify the animation  process by using NLA clips of animation.

 

evilproducer

And in some cases, depending on the effect you are looking for, you can rig objects in a group without them being part of the same model.

I animated the handcuffs from the Object browser, which was a group of independent objects. It was built at a weird angle, so I had a little prep work to do before I could rig it, but it worked.

hrpschrd

Evilproducer: I can't get a screen capture into a jif or other format from my Cararra screen. I have done copy/paste word file but I won't show up.

3DAGE: I have a hierarchy of parents and children. How do you make one object the child of two parents which would link them together?

3DAGE

On PC's the keyboads have a ( "Print screen / Sys req" ) key  (this will capture your entire screen area.and hold it in the "Clipboard" ..you can then open any Image editor or paint program,. and paste that image from the clipboard

FIle new,..  Edit / Paste,. or "Paste from clipboard"..

that should paste your screen capture into the paint program, then you can save it to your desktop as a .JPG

then you can upload that here using "Attach file" below...

 

You wouldn't normally have a double parent to a single child,. you could use tracking to have the child follow the motion of both parent objects, however the child cannot follow both parent objects if both parents have different motions or locations  it may be easier to flip the identifier for parent to chldren,

 

Screenshots may help

Milo

if you get irfanview an image viewer that is free, you can open it up and paste the screen capture, you can crop out wha tyou don't want in there by drawing a box and typing control-y and it will save out a jpg that you can upload here.
http://www.irfanview.net/ download both the program and the plugins, it will view just about anything for you.

hrpschrd

I made the attachment bond the parent and the two molecules children. It only attached to one child.

Sounds like linking bones may be the only way to do it, if at all. Hard to imagine this is that diffcult.

3DAGE

If you have the two "Molecules", under the "Attachment bond" .. when you move the attachment bond, the molecules should also move along with that, since they are physically parented to it. (see screenshot)

If you're only seeing one molecule moving when you move the bond, then both are not attached, or some other modifier or linkage is going on within those molecules to prevent them moving.

See example Screen shot,

Two Sphere's and a Cylinder,.

both sphere's are parented to the cylinder and positioned at either end.

when the cylinder is moved, the whole thing moves.

edited to add better pic of parent / child

hrpschrd

Ok, so here is the molecule with red and blue parts that rotate around the x-axis with target helpers. The left and right parts are groups with hierarchies that connect them all. In the middle is a "joint" that can be part of either group but I cannot connect it to both. Therefore the whole chain is not connected. I will be adding many more groups so I want them all connected.

It would be easier if the joint didn't connect to the spinning blue part but it must, and the rotation is important.

Anyone, anyone? (Ferris Bueher's Day Off")

3DAGE

I just grabbed your screencapture / doc thing,. it's been a while since i opened a word doc :)

You could create a simple bone structure to control the line of bonds and use target helpers to attach the molecules at the bone joints.

Stuff not mentioned yet,....

Constraints.

When you create a parent child system, you can also limit the childs motion (in relation to the parent) by setting a constraint, in the "motion" panel, in just the same way that a bone would be limited in it's motion to it's parent.

Just like the wagging tail and the dog,. the tail would be parented to the dog,. and the tails motion could be constrained to move within a limited axis of rotation,. or like a "Ball joint", so it could spin like a propeller.

 

 

 

3DAGE

here's a quick file which may help,.. showing parent / child, point at, and use of target helper, with a spin modifier.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7907045/Spintest_.car

hrpschrd

3DAGE: The parenting hierarchy I think I understand. I don't want constraints or maybe ball joint.

Your file is bafling though. I see some of the relationships but don't know why you have it constructed as you do.

On the other hand, by just putting the joint child to the last sphere of the group before it and the whole next group child to the joint, it spins just great. Now I continue this about 30 times and add motion, I have a realistic motion for a polymer under microwave influence. I just use target helpers for individual spining dipoles without pointing.

Thanks.