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I have to say no, I doesn't work.
Even though I'm sure you only changed the camera position, the optical axis tells me she is about to poke herself with the dagger in the back. On top, the view makes her cleavage looking like that of a barbie doll. So the side view wokrs much better and there are good hints from Scott-Livingston how to get the attention on the right spots.
Xangth, for both renders i would suggest you try to apply the rule of third. (righ now I'm to tired to take your images and make the overlay with the grid) but what I can see tht in your intruder Image the blue guy is close to the one third line.
Maybe you try to move the fancy lady over to the blue guy, right on the 1st thirds line and the put your patroling machinery in the two other sweet spots on the right side.
The second render, I like the general setting, and the background is beautiful, but i don't feel involved.
Technically there is a lack of shadows on the floor so your personnage hat a slight impression of floating. The green guy comes to me as a big green blob, and I do have a rather good resolution on my screen.
Now for some ideas, you have that serene background and that very livly floor, Try to use those to your advantage. I would like to see the human in his calm stance supported with the calm of the background opposed to the green attacker on that noisy floor. That surely will involve a lot of camera positioning, but I guess its worth the efford, and here as well keep in mind the rule of thirds.
thanks for the suggest "Linwelly" I actually starting using the golden rules helpers to see it they can help assist in making my art better using formulated positioning for a composition. I admit I did not use the grid but I did use the fibonacci spiral on it and lined it up using it. I will try some other cam angles and add some to the building set as it is actually all opened. I tried using both grid and spiral on the other and got cam angles I did not want or like but I 'll try a bit more as there is still some time left. The cameras in Bryce are similar to the ones in Daz Studio but unfortunately there is only one camera that you have to use and re-position.
The top image is very close to being done.
Some subtle shifts could bring it home & project more action into it.
I understand if you want the main body positions to be where they are at... but you can still make them more alive. Have the woman take charge of the man or something. Hand poses, hand/arm positioning, along with a less neutral expression on their faces.
It's very close, and but it could be made more lively. It still looks static to me. I don't get a sense of the next action.
...
Picture 2...
If you like that pose, then the rear foot of the swordsman needs to be pointed at the monster (I guess that's the "front foot", though... the foot closest to the monster, and perpendicular to the line of the swordsman), and the upper body also pointed in that same direction (like the Taiwanese swordswoman).
He looks like he's looking over the side of his foot, which is not so good (and only a good position for running away). I would say try it in real life, but don't try it... if you lunge onto the side of your foot, it's a bad thing. It's a good way to break something. The NCAA March Madness game between Louisville & Michigan a couple years ago when Kevin Ware snapped his leg in half comes to mind. It's not a "move forward" kind of position. It's just awkward to look at, the way the foot is planted sideways. I'm not a master swordsman, but it looks off to me.
Also, I want to shift everything over & around a bit. The camera does nothing for me other than witness. I think you can do more with it.
The whole stand-off thing is a difficult one to capture.
When I think of those scenes in movies, it's from behind one of the combatants or you're tight on the faces, like the Clint Eastwood spaghetti Westerns with Sergio Leone.
For the side angle, the monsters & the swordsman could be closer together... weapons crossing or something. I googled "Samurai standoff" and saw a bunch of interesting pictures.
EDIT: For clarity.
Thanks for the input "The Blurst of Times" This will take a bit to redo and rebuild all four characters. Bryce is not quite the same as the studio but I have a far greater range for texturing.
I took the suggestions of Linwelly & Scott and have made adjustments to the image.
Something about her stance and the position of her legs and feet does not feel right to me. I have tried to Google images of fighting stances, archery stances, etc and cannot find a suitable image showing the legs and feet.
Any suggestions?
Its a bad angle. She has her back turned, the focus is off her and the trolls backside has become the star.. and he is just standing there like a lump.
She has nocked an arrow. She is hunting and ready. She would be slightly crouched and/or leaning forward, ready to draw the bowstring. Head would be searching. At this point she wouldn't be flatfooted. Think of a stalking pose and not an "archery stance". Cat, Huntress, and Large mouse.
If you really insist on this view, put her movement axis basically the same as the cats, only she hasn't turned to look yet. That gives you a 3/4 view of her and opens a ton more posing and expression options.
I knocked out a rough approximation of the pose and angle I would try if using the rear view of your image. Sorry I am so blunt. I'll be 59 tomorrow and I'm already crankier than normal.
Grotto to the Great Mystery 24"x18"
Increased shadow strength from 40% to 125% which added a "richness" overall. Made a few other changes which I feel enhance total feel. Always open to suggestions, thanks again Scott! :-)
Its a bad angle. She has her back turned, the focus is off her and the trolls backside has become the star.. and he is just standing there like a lump.
She has nocked an arrow. She is hunting and ready. She would be slightly crouched and/or leaning forward, ready to draw the bowstring. Head would be searching. At this point she wouldn't be flatfooted. Think of a stalking pose and not an "archery stance". Cat, Huntress, and Large mouse.
If you really insist on this view, put her movement axis basically the same as the cats, only she hasn't turned to look yet. That gives you a 3/4 view of her and opens a ton more posing and expression options.
I knocked out a rough approximation of the pose and angle I would try if using the rear view of your image. Sorry I am so blunt. I'll be 59 tomorrow and I'm already crankier than normal.
I do not mind you being blunt Teofa.
I have been trying all month to figure out something useful to say to help, and have come up empty handed. You are trying to accomplish a complex idea where subtle things tell the whole story. Kudos for that.
I think one thing that is working against you is that she is shooting the bow right handed, while the Troll is holding the club in his left hand. That means no matter if you position the camera angle so that it is 3/4s on the troll, or 3/4s on her, one will have their back to you. I would suggest putting the club in the Trolls right hand, since that is the easier to pose. And then I would try a couple camera angles where you can see at least some of each face. Their eyes and faces can really help you tell the story. Right now everything is relying on the cat, and its a lot of weight for him to carry.
I have been trying all month to figure out something useful to say to help, and have come up empty handed. You are trying to accomplish a complex idea where subtle things tell the whole story. Kudos for that.
I think one thing that is working against you is that she is shooting the bow right handed, while the Troll is holding the club in his left hand. That means no matter if you position the camera angle so that it is 3/4s on the troll, or 3/4s on her, one will have their back to you. I would suggest putting the club in the Trolls right hand, since that is the easier to pose. And then I would try a couple camera angles where you can see at least some of each face. Their eyes and faces can really help you tell the story. Right now everything is relying on the cat, and its a lot of weight for him to carry.
All I can think of is a pose like this for mr troll.. if he can pull it off. I dunno, don't have a troll model. A very rough quick approximation.
Thank you for your advice.
1. You are right about the rules. For some reason I read that as two renders not two figures in a render. I blame old age....
2. Lights. Right now I have three. I'm using the iray world light (I forget what it is called) and another spot as a fill light - pointed at the dragon from above and to the right. I love the reflections. The third light is a distant light. This was an attempt to reduce the shadows against the backdrop. It doesn't have a huge impact and I will likely be adjusting it/removing it/something.
3. Swords. The props I used are very dark and rusty and really don't stand out as you suggest. I've read about shaders in passing, but haven't quite got to the point where I knew enough to use them. I'm playing with them now and it's really cool. I don't have the flake one you mentioned. I'm going to have to play with them a bit because they don't look very good yet.
4. The background was picking up shadows that I was having trouble getting rid of. I change the diffuse strength and dropped the glossiness down to nothing and that helped. I'd like to map it to the iray dome, but then it doesn't seem visible at design time and it's a pain to place. More work here is in order.
5. I based the dragons movement, in part, on my cats. His backend is turning hard left, hence his left leg underneath and his right out to the side. then he sees us and begins to turn right (his front half) so his left front leg is pushing out and back and just about ready to come forward like his right leg. His motion is a little snake-like as well. I tried to make most of his body transitioning from one motion to finally coming after us - the viewers. That was the plan anyways. Based on your notes, I've modified the neck a little and opened his mouth more to hopefully increase his ferocity. I'm keeping him low to the ground for now because of the turns he's making he would likely keep his center of gravity low (in theory). That was my thought pattern at least. I will revisit my execution. Some of the work I did isn't really visible at this angle and that might be part of the issue too.
I really appreciate you taking the time to comment. Hopefully this weekend I'll have time to get this ready to enter into the contest.
Best Regards,
Eric
OK, I've made a lot of additions and corrections. The dragon now has his right front foot on the ground and the left one in the air. I think this helps with some of the awkwardness in the last image.
Now we can see one chess piece hanging off the chessboard, peaking up and another just leaving our field of vision - only his foot is visible. Hopefully that better conveys the idea that the chess pieces all dropped their weapons and ran.
Now there is also a queen - a very pissed-off queen. As befits her royal station, she is walking off the board (not running) and keeping an eye on the dragon with a none-to-happy expression.
I found the metal flakes you mentioned - very cool. For the swords, I ended up using Aluminum - Satin. This seemed to give me the metallic look without the mirror reflections.
Thanks again for your advice. I need to walk away from this for a bit and revisit tomorrow with a fresh eye.
I love the guy hanging off the edge of the chessboard peaking over the edge and the pissed off Queen is a nice touch.
This is the moment where the swordsman is teasing the monster into charging, as soon as the monster over commits to the forward momentum, the swordsman will sidestep him from just out of range, and slash the passing monster in the back. I think you could keep the same foot position on the swordsman, but bring more light on his face by cheating the chest/abdomen/pelvis/neck twists.
I think as with many others that there is too much negative space in the image, that it is swallowing the characters. I always have too little. We should work together! I think whatever program you are using to get your fibonacci spiral is allowing you to stretch it to the canvas width, and rotate it away from you. Both of these are not helping. The golden ratio is as spiral is facing flat to you... and the proportion in the very thing that makes it a "fibonacci". The thing that makes a particular spiral a fibonacci spiral is the relationship of 3 to 2, called "the golden ration", or the math symbol phi, roughly equivalent close to 16:10; 5:3 = 1.61 which is also the " golden aspect ratio" for portraits and landscapes. The thing about it is every time you remove a square section, you end up with another golden rectangle, another fibonacci spiral. So.. if you distort it, you ruin the relationship and it ceases to give you the sweet spots you want.
Also, you are applying it differently than I do... I make the sweet spots, which are on the line, cross through the eyes. You are sort of "enveloping" the figures in the spiral. This is also what I do for the crosses of the rule of three, try to get the crosses as close as possible to making crosshairs on each figures eyes. Without even moving your figures up and down to get them to be exactly in the sweet spots, I think the composition is more dynamic without the extra space.
I think what you are trying to do with the "extra" space that you want in the image... why you like it.. is the background image. I agree that it is very nice. Also, you are using the columns to frame the figures, also very good. I think you can accomplish both while still eliminating extraneous background space, and tightening the distance between the characters. Its all a matter of sizing and rotating props, background, figures, lights and camera. Remember- it only matters what it looks like through the camera lens. They can be completely distorted relative to each other in the work pane! This would be different in a game environment, but we have certain liberties.
I took the liberty of using the recompose tool in photoshop- (it lets you crop while keeping the stuff you want yet eliminating the things you do not). The large image shows where I placed spiral and grid lines, as well as before and afters with lines. The other two images are the composition without the lines distracting, and of course your image. I think the focus is now much more tense it makes you look at the characters. Since I didn't have the background image, I couldn't make that part look nice. Feel free to hate the suggestion.. it is your work! I think you can get everything you want into the image without losing the focus on the figures.
I agree with all of this! Beware the foot in the corner is creating a tangent. I think the dragon needs the King's crown in his mouth!
Coming along very nicely.
Looks good...I particularly like the realism of the man's hair and clothing. The woman's hair seems a little too perfect for the scene...if it has some morphs you can dial to make it look a little messy or windswept, that might help. You might take a look at her expression also, maybe part the lips a bit more, squint the eyes, or add a couple of other subtle touches that might help to bring out her emotions and personality a bit. Keep up the good work!
Better, but the lighting around the male figure is still a bit dim, especially his face. The female figure is perfectly illuminated, though...she's got a really appealing glow about her. Composition and posing looks good too.
Getting better! The poses are looking somewhat more natural, and I think the lighting is improved also. I'd think about adding some more ambient or fill light though, as the shadows are still rather dark. The depth of field looks pretty good.
Latest version.
I tightened up the image even more to get rid of the view of the Troll's butt and try and put the emphasis more squarely on the Leopard. Changed Naira's stance and pose.
Sorry I am so blunt. I'll be 59 tomorrow and I'm already crankier than normal.
Happy Birthday Teofa!
Hope your day is a peaceful one. I take an organic herbal called "Ashwagandha." If you are not familiar with it, as a birthday gift, I suggest you read about it. I've been taking it now for nearly four years and it changed my life in a most wonderful way. Just wanted to share. Again, happy birthday! :-)
Chiming in here, happy birthday to you Teofa, I guess the crancyness will go away as soon as you feel life is normal again after the birthday and you still are the same person as before, just as with every other birthday.
So, time to celebrate yourself and enjoy the day!
Happy Birthday Teofa! :-)
I hope you have a wonderful day.
Thank you for the help you provide to everyone.
I agree with all of this! Beware the foot in the corner is creating a tangent. I think the dragon needs the King's crown in his mouth!
Coming along very nicely.
Thank you both. I had to look up tangent to understand what you meant. Wow, good stuff to know. I've changed the foot - hopefully for the better.
I like the crown idea and I've been trying to get one to look right as though it is being crushed under the dragon's foot. If I can get it to look right, I'll include it in the final render.
Thanks again for all your help.
Happy Birthday Teofa! Hope you had a great day.
I have been shifting around lights on this one for what felt an eternety, got them once completly messed up and started anew from scretch. He might still be a bit on the dark side but I like it like this and I guess I will call this one done.
Their poses were adjusted as well a little so they are bending more towards each other, but mor would be totally uncouth :coolsmile:
Here is the new render of the second new image I started playing with. The camera angle is changed to more of a side view. Parts in the set were moved and some textures added or changed. I am still reworking the characters for the other image.
Ditto on the Happy Birthday Teofa! hope you have a good one.
:-) I like the light as it is, what color is it? I feel it could be a tad warmer, just a thought.
Here is my next improof. changed the light, pose and the shirt. for more backround I add a few houses.
In Test 3.1 and 3.2.1 I used gimp to make the backround a little less pixeled
What do you think about the hole picture, the backround and the softning?
Thank you for your help
Manfred
:-) I like the light as it is, what color is it? I feel it could be a tad warmer, just a thought.
Thank you giovanni, its a mix of greyblue and sunlight yellow. I have the impression it turns over to e greenish tint when I change to a warmer tone
Last render...any thoughts?