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[Released] IBL Master - Image Based Lighting control for both renderers & a new IBL for 3Delight

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  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,057
    edited January 2018

    Mustakettu85 said:

    Parris said:

    Shading rate can have a sharpening effect (like unsharp mask in Photoshop).

    Oh, you probably didn't notice that kyoto kid has "progressive" on in that screen!

    The raytracer is invoked = shading rate is out of the picture. It's a REYES-only thing (for the non-tech folks: only meaningful in the default mode).

    Moreover, any pixel filter settings are invalid in the progressive mode. The warning has been suppressed in DS, but the fact remains:
    Progressive mode effectively uses no filters (technically it uses a 1x1 box filter, but it's essentially the same as no filter).

    This is why it is more prone to aliasing, but without scripted rendering (which KK does not want to get involved with, as I remember), there is no other way to access the raytracer in DS. Sad but true.

    TL;DR:
    In progressive, playing with shading rate or filter type/width will not have any effect. The renderer does not use these values.

    kyoto kid - I'd drop pixel samples down to 12x12 max, render out twice as large and then run a good 1x1 gaussian filter in an image editor.

    The current recommended filter for pathtracing in 3Delight is 2x2 gaussian. That's reconstruction filter which is mathematically not the same as doing this in an image editor, and yet.

    REYES needed sharpening, hence sinc being the default.
    Path-tracing is beyond sharp by default. Every pathtracer uses a soft filter these days.

     ...been hoping to not have to resort to post to fix this as in 3DL Bucket mode and Iray it renders just fine.

    Yeah, my coding days are long over.

    Like I mentioned on the last page, the schoolbag is an old prop. I'll have to look at it in the Surfaces tab to see if there are some Poser material settings that may be causing this.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • ParrisParris Posts: 392
    freni-kyn said:

    And the third is probably operator error but I need some help with it. I followed the instruction for adding a light and messed a bit with intensity but it really seemed to have very little affect on the character. When you say center the light do you mean that we are to put it onto the item we want hit with light?  When I center it using the rotation parameters the light is always behind the character. 

    Boost lights are mesh lights (disks or rectangles) that are out at a distance(equal the edge of the floor plane) and point toward the center of the scene by default. You can rotate the targets on IBL Master to position the light (point at the center of the scene from whatever direction). The main purpose for them is so you can line that little target up to center around a hotspot (like the sun) on your HDRI. This then will match the hotpot's path and rotation so you can boost the light from the HDRI. For this purpose, Boost Lights are really not needed usually for 3Delight renders, because you can just crank up the brightness of the IBLM Light shader, and reduce the brightness of the background (3DLEnvSphere) as needed (Diffuse Strength and Ambient Strength).

    The red target (#1) should light a character facing you if your camera is pointing towards the back of the stage. Anyway, I think the easiest way to get an understanding of it is to watch the YouTube Overiew video. Have you watched that? There is a link in the second post of this thead and it is also in the descrition on the store page. Also, the most thorough documentation, with a new FAQ is on my website here:

    https://www.chrisparrishdesign.com/ibl-master/

    I hope that helps. To help with your eye surface issues, I think we really need to see a close up (maybe hide the hair for that), and some other details about the surface settings for different eye surfaces. Screenshots of you surface settings for the surfaces can really help. Whether you want the burned in highlights that come with the product or ray traced reflections is another question that might involve taking a look at your render settings.

  • freni-kynfreni-kyn Posts: 394
    Parris said:
    freni-kyn said:

    And the third is probably operator error but I need some help with it. I followed the instruction for adding a light and messed a bit with intensity but it really seemed to have very little affect on the character. When you say center the light do you mean that we are to put it onto the item we want hit with light?  When I center it using the rotation parameters the light is always behind the character. 

    Boost lights are mesh lights (disks or rectangles) that are out at a distance(equal the edge of the floor plane) and point toward the center of the scene by default. You can rotate the targets on IBL Master to position the light (point at the center of the scene from whatever direction). The main purpose for them is so you can line that little target up to center around a hotspot (like the sun) on your HDRI. This then will match the hotpot's path and rotation so you can boost the light from the HDRI. For this purpose, Boost Lights are really not needed usually for 3Delight renders, because you can just crank up the brightness of the IBLM Light shader, and reduce the brightness of the background (3DLEnvSphere) as needed (Diffuse Strength and Ambient Strength).

    The red target (#1) should light a character facing you if your camera is pointing towards the back of the stage. Anyway, I think the easiest way to get an understanding of it is to watch the YouTube Overiew video. Have you watched that? There is a link in the second post of this thead and it is also in the descrition on the store page. Also, the most thorough documentation, with a new FAQ is on my website here:

    https://www.chrisparrishdesign.com/ibl-master/

    I hope that helps. To help with your eye surface issues, I think we really need to see a close up (maybe hide the hair for that), and some other details about the surface settings for different eye surfaces. Screenshots of you surface settings for the surfaces can really help. Whether you want the burned in highlights that come with the product or ray traced reflections is another question that might involve taking a look at your render settings.

    Thank you for the information.  I'll try those things out.  I did watch the video before making the purchase but I probably need to watch it again.  I've switched out her skin materials with a 3delight material and switched my render to bucket mode but now the skin comes out really grainy. 

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    freni-kyn said:
    Parris said:
    freni-kyn said:

    And the third is probably operator error but I need some help with it. I followed the instruction for adding a light and messed a bit with intensity but it really seemed to have very little affect on the character. When you say center the light do you mean that we are to put it onto the item we want hit with light?  When I center it using the rotation parameters the light is always behind the character. 

    Boost lights are mesh lights (disks or rectangles) that are out at a distance(equal the edge of the floor plane) and point toward the center of the scene by default. You can rotate the targets on IBL Master to position the light (point at the center of the scene from whatever direction). The main purpose for them is so you can line that little target up to center around a hotspot (like the sun) on your HDRI. This then will match the hotpot's path and rotation so you can boost the light from the HDRI. For this purpose, Boost Lights are really not needed usually for 3Delight renders, because you can just crank up the brightness of the IBLM Light shader, and reduce the brightness of the background (3DLEnvSphere) as needed (Diffuse Strength and Ambient Strength).

    The red target (#1) should light a character facing you if your camera is pointing towards the back of the stage. Anyway, I think the easiest way to get an understanding of it is to watch the YouTube Overiew video. Have you watched that? There is a link in the second post of this thead and it is also in the descrition on the store page. Also, the most thorough documentation, with a new FAQ is on my website here:

    https://www.chrisparrishdesign.com/ibl-master/

    I hope that helps. To help with your eye surface issues, I think we really need to see a close up (maybe hide the hair for that), and some other details about the surface settings for different eye surfaces. Screenshots of you surface settings for the surfaces can really help. Whether you want the burned in highlights that come with the product or ray traced reflections is another question that might involve taking a look at your render settings.

    Thank you for the information.  I'll try those things out.  I did watch the video before making the purchase but I probably need to watch it again.  I've switched out her skin materials with a 3delight material and switched my render to bucket mode but now the skin comes out really grainy. 

    I assume you mean 3DL default mode ( progressive off)? In render settings pane try set sample pixels to min 5x5 but possibly up to 10x10. Be sure you have gamma correction on and gamma at 2.20. Sample rate to max 0.2. Try the Catmull-Rom filter at 2x2. If you mean that shaded areas are grainy you need to up the diffuse samples in IBL Master light settings from the default 16 to 32 or possibly more.

  • freni-kynfreni-kyn Posts: 394
    edited January 2018
    Sven Dullah said:
    freni-kyn said:
    Parris said:
    freni-kyn said:

    And the third is probably operator error but I need some help with it. I followed the instruction for adding a light and messed a bit with intensity but it really seemed to have very little affect on the character. When you say center the light do you mean that we are to put it onto the item we want hit with light?  When I center it using the rotation parameters the light is always behind the character. 

    Boost lights are mesh lights (disks or rectangles) that are out at a distance(equal the edge of the floor plane) and point toward the center of the scene by default. You can rotate the targets on IBL Master to position the light (point at the center of the scene from whatever direction). The main purpose for them is so you can line that little target up to center around a hotspot (like the sun) on your HDRI. This then will match the hotpot's path and rotation so you can boost the light from the HDRI. For this purpose, Boost Lights are really not needed usually for 3Delight renders, because you can just crank up the brightness of the IBLM Light shader, and reduce the brightness of the background (3DLEnvSphere) as needed (Diffuse Strength and Ambient Strength).

    The red target (#1) should light a character facing you if your camera is pointing towards the back of the stage. Anyway, I think the easiest way to get an understanding of it is to watch the YouTube Overiew video. Have you watched that? There is a link in the second post of this thead and it is also in the descrition on the store page. Also, the most thorough documentation, with a new FAQ is on my website here:

    https://www.chrisparrishdesign.com/ibl-master/

    I hope that helps. To help with your eye surface issues, I think we really need to see a close up (maybe hide the hair for that), and some other details about the surface settings for different eye surfaces. Screenshots of you surface settings for the surfaces can really help. Whether you want the burned in highlights that come with the product or ray traced reflections is another question that might involve taking a look at your render settings.

    Thank you for the information.  I'll try those things out.  I did watch the video before making the purchase but I probably need to watch it again.  I've switched out her skin materials with a 3delight material and switched my render to bucket mode but now the skin comes out really grainy. 

    I assume you mean 3DL default mode ( progressive off)? In render settings pane try set sample pixels to min 5x5 but possibly up to 10x10. Be sure you have gamma correction on and gamma at 2.20. Sample rate to max 0.2. Try the Catmull-Rom filter at 2x2. If you mean that shaded areas are grainy you need to up the diffuse samples in IBL Master light settings from the default 16 to 32 or possibly more.

    Thanks I figured it out but I'll still try those settings.  My main issue is that I could not get shadows to show no matter what I did.  It turned out that one of my iradiance hdr images does not work correctly, or at least I could not get it to work.  I switched to a different one and set my settings back to default and now it has realistic shading.  It's a shame because I liked the other background better but was making me crazy to mess with.  My new problem is that my character seems to be floating a couple of inches off the ground.  I tried to select her and use Y to move her down but all that did was move her clothing and hair, which kind of weirds me out since I can not move her at all now. 

    I'm including two partial renders.  I stopped both of them as soon as I saw that the one with the blue background was floating and face was too dark, And the one with the yellow background I tilted at a crazy angle, which apparently makes her not look like she is floating and puts nice light on the face, but I did not like the shadows on her body.  I really wish I had screen shot the angles I tilted the background sphere for that as I've not been able to duplicate it. 

    sakura mix dimension theory4.png
    600 x 780 - 1M
    sakura mix dimension theory5.png
    600 x 780 - 1M
    Post edited by freni-kyn on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited January 2018
    freni-kyn said:
    Sven Dullah said:
    freni-kyn said:
    Parris said:
    freni-kyn said:

    And the third is probably operator error but I need some help with it. I followed the instruction for adding a light and messed a bit with intensity but it really seemed to have very little affect on the character. When you say center the light do you mean that we are to put it onto the item we want hit with light?  When I center it using the rotation parameters the light is always behind the character. 

    Boost lights are mesh lights (disks or rectangles) that are out at a distance(equal the edge of the floor plane) and point toward the center of the scene by default. You can rotate the targets on IBL Master to position the light (point at the center of the scene from whatever direction). The main purpose for them is so you can line that little target up to center around a hotspot (like the sun) on your HDRI. This then will match the hotpot's path and rotation so you can boost the light from the HDRI. For this purpose, Boost Lights are really not needed usually for 3Delight renders, because you can just crank up the brightness of the IBLM Light shader, and reduce the brightness of the background (3DLEnvSphere) as needed (Diffuse Strength and Ambient Strength).

    The red target (#1) should light a character facing you if your camera is pointing towards the back of the stage. Anyway, I think the easiest way to get an understanding of it is to watch the YouTube Overiew video. Have you watched that? There is a link in the second post of this thead and it is also in the descrition on the store page. Also, the most thorough documentation, with a new FAQ is on my website here:

    https://www.chrisparrishdesign.com/ibl-master/

    I hope that helps. To help with your eye surface issues, I think we really need to see a close up (maybe hide the hair for that), and some other details about the surface settings for different eye surfaces. Screenshots of you surface settings for the surfaces can really help. Whether you want the burned in highlights that come with the product or ray traced reflections is another question that might involve taking a look at your render settings.

    Thank you for the information.  I'll try those things out.  I did watch the video before making the purchase but I probably need to watch it again.  I've switched out her skin materials with a 3delight material and switched my render to bucket mode but now the skin comes out really grainy. 

    I assume you mean 3DL default mode ( progressive off)? In render settings pane try set sample pixels to min 5x5 but possibly up to 10x10. Be sure you have gamma correction on and gamma at 2.20. Sample rate to max 0.2. Try the Catmull-Rom filter at 2x2. If you mean that shaded areas are grainy you need to up the diffuse samples in IBL Master light settings from the default 16 to 32 or possibly more.

    Thanks I figured it out but I'll still try those settings.  My main issue is that I could not get shadows to show no matter what I did.  It turned out that one of my iradiance hdr images does not work correctly, or at least I could not get it to work.  I switched to a different one and set my settings back to default and now it has realistic shading.  It's a shame because I liked the other background better but was making me crazy to mess with.  My new problem is that my character seems to be floating a couple of inches off the ground.  I tried to select her and use Y to move her down but all that did was move her clothing and hair, which kind of weirds me out since I can not move her at all now. 

    I'm including two partial renders.  I stopped both of them as soon as I saw that the one with the blue background was floating and face was too dark, And the one with the yellow background I tilted at a crazy angle, which apparently makes her not look like she is floating and puts nice light on the face, but I did not like the shadows on her body.  I really wish I had screen shot the angles I tilted the background sphere for that as I've not been able to duplicate it. 

    Good to hear you're making progress:) Yeah not all hdr's cast direct light but you can still use them as sky backdrop/dome independently of your light source HDRI. I have no idea why you had problems moving your character. Surely the cloths and hair were fitted to the character? Did you try to save the scene under a new name and reboot DS? It'll be a nice render when you get it all sorted out=)

    ETA:I can see from the renders that you actually used progressive mode, so you don't have to worry about filter settings or shading rate values then as they are inactive in progressive:) And on my machine progressive renders 3 times faster than default;)

    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,057

    ...well good I decided to look at the material settings.  Changed the lighting model from plastic to skin (basically leather is a "skin") dropped the glossiness from 95% to 75% (reducing it any further for some reason stripped all the colour out) and reduced the specular value from 100% to 20%.  I have a similar type of leather computer bag and in RL, it has far duller highlights than the 3D model has.

    Also reduced the pixel samples to 12 and the IBLM light to 32 which significantly sped the process up (finished in 11m:48s). 

    bus stop progressive HDR only.jpg
    1200 x 900 - 859K
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    kyoto kid said:

    ...well good I decided to look at the material settings.  Changed the lighting model from plastic to skin (basically leather is a "skin") dropped the glossiness from 95% to 75% (reducing it any further for some reason stripped all the colour out) and reduced the specular value from 100% to 20%.  I have a similar type of leather computer bag and in RL, it has far duller highlights than the 3D model has.

    Also reduced the pixel samples to 12 and the IBLM light to 32 which significantly sped the process up (finished in 11m:48s). 

    yes

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,057

    ...yeah, more often than not seems to end up being something simple that causes a lot of grief.

    Now going an and cleaning up a few other items.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244
    Looking good,KK.
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,057
    edited January 2018

    ..thanks.

    Again doing a few more touch ups then need to figure out how to just get the city skyline from the photo image in while using the same HDR sky.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • freni-kynfreni-kyn Posts: 394
    edited January 2018
    Sven Dullah said:
     
    Sven Dullah said:
    freni-kyn said:
    Sven Dullah said:
    freni-kyn said:
    Parris said:
    freni-kyn said:

    And the third is probably operator error but I need some help with it. I followed the instruction for adding a light and messed a bit with intensity but it really seemed to have very little affect on the character. When you say center the light do you mean that we are to put it onto the item we want hit with light?  When I center it using the rotation parameters the light is always behind the character. 

    Boost lights are mesh lights (disks or rectangles) that are out at a distance(equal the edge of the floor plane) and point toward the center of the scene by default. You can rotate the targets on IBL Master to position the light (point at the center of the scene from whatever direction). The main purpose for them is so you can line that little target up to center around a hotspot (like the sun) on your HDRI. This then will match the hotpot's path and rotation so you can boost the light from the HDRI. For this purpose, Boost Lights are really not needed usually for 3Delight renders, because you can just crank up the brightness of the IBLM Light shader, and reduce the brightness of the background (3DLEnvSphere) as needed (Diffuse Strength and Ambient Strength).

    The red target (#1) should light a character facing you if your camera is pointing towards the back of the stage. Anyway, I think the easiest way to get an understanding of it is to watch the YouTube Overiew video. Have you watched that? There is a link in the second post of this thead and it is also in the descrition on the store page. Also, the most thorough documentation, with a new FAQ is on my website here:

    https://www.chrisparrishdesign.com/ibl-master/

    I hope that helps. To help with your eye surface issues, I think we really need to see a close up (maybe hide the hair for that), and some other details about the surface settings for different eye surfaces. Screenshots of you surface settings for the surfaces can really help. Whether you want the burned in highlights that come with the product or ray traced reflections is another question that might involve taking a look at your render settings.

    Thank you for the information.  I'll try those things out.  I did watch the video before making the purchase but I probably need to watch it again.  I've switched out her skin materials with a 3delight material and switched my render to bucket mode but now the skin comes out really grainy. 

    I assume you mean 3DL default mode ( progressive off)? In render settings pane try set sample pixels to min 5x5 but possibly up to 10x10. Be sure you have gamma correction on and gamma at 2.20. Sample rate to max 0.2. Try the Catmull-Rom filter at 2x2. If you mean that shaded areas are grainy you need to up the diffuse samples in IBL Master light settings from the default 16 to 32 or possibly more.

    Thanks I figured it out but I'll still try those settings.  My main issue is that I could not get shadows to show no matter what I did.  It turned out that one of my iradiance hdr images does not work correctly, or at least I could not get it to work.  I switched to a different one and set my settings back to default and now it has realistic shading.  It's a shame because I liked the other background better but was making me crazy to mess with.  My new problem is that my character seems to be floating a couple of inches off the ground.  I tried to select her and use Y to move her down but all that did was move her clothing and hair, which kind of weirds me out since I can not move her at all now. 

    I'm including two partial renders.  I stopped both of them as soon as I saw that the one with the blue background was floating and face was too dark, And the one with the yellow background I tilted at a crazy angle, which apparently makes her not look like she is floating and puts nice light on the face, but I did not like the shadows on her body.  I really wish I had screen shot the angles I tilted the background sphere for that as I've not been able to duplicate it. 

    Good to hear you're making progress:) Yeah not all hdr's cast direct light but you can still use them as sky backdrop/dome independently of your light source HDRI. I have no idea why you had problems moving your character. Surely the cloths and hair were fitted to the character? Did you try to save the scene under a new name and reboot DS? It'll be a nice render when you get it all sorted out=)

    ETA:I can see from the renders that you actually used progressive mode, so you don't have to worry about filter settings or shading rate values then as they are inactive in progressive:) And on my machine progressive renders 3 times faster than default;)

    Yes I fitted the clothing.  And I posed her after fitting. I'm not really sure when it stopped letting me move her.  Maybe when I changed some of her base shape so that she looked less thin.  I've never had this happen before unless things were not fitted.  I'd just reload the clothing but that would not make the translate thing work on the character.  No I have not tried saving under a new name and checking it that way.  Good idea.  I'm wondering if this is a glitch with the Sakura 8 figure. I had a 49-50 mix dialed in but decided to change the body to 100% another figure because I did not like Sakura 8 arms.  They looked too much like a barbie doll to me.  Maybe when you dial out the sakura body the clothing and hair stops fitting.  Still does not explain why I can't move her. 

    EDIT:  I saved under a new name and reloaded it and am now able to use y translate.  Thank you!!!  Still don't know what caused it but so grateful that it worked.

    I have had progressive turned off ever since I read in here that it works better with it off.  Those were my last render attempts of that figure and I thought it odd that they rendered that way too.  It basically renders a low res version and then goes back and clarifies it.  Including screen captures of my render settings.

    How do I use the backdrop independantly of the hdr light source?  I gave up on hdr and all my domes except terra dome a while back because I usually work in iray and I could not control the light source easily so I am not really sure how to use the hdr stuff.

    render settings 10.PNG
    607 x 921 - 65K
    render settings 11.PNG
    626 x 911 - 73K
    Post edited by freni-kyn on
  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,198

    What if you have iRay materials on a character and try to render with your product in 3Delight? Do you have to change to 3Delight materials first?

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,471
    edited January 2018

    Probably make it look better.  There is a script for that in the freebie's section, I believe.  :)

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/139326/irayto3delight-conversion-script/p1

    Post edited by 3dOutlaw on
  • ParrisParris Posts: 392
    inquire said:

    What if you have iRay materials on a character and try to render with your product in 3Delight? Do you have to change to 3Delight materials first?

    Changing to 3Delight materials is recommended whenever you render with 3Delight, regardless of whether you use IBL Master or not.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,057

    ...generally yes.  There is a script for that.  I don't have the link to it at hand right now.  You will still need to do some adjusting afterwards as there are as few 3DL channels that Iray has no equivalent for.

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,471
    edited January 2018

    If we were bowling, that would be a "turkey"!  cheeky

    Post edited by 3dOutlaw on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,057

    ...yep.  Grew up in Wisconsin, the "national pastime" there.

    Rolled a couple Dutch 200s as well.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    freni-kyn said:
    Sven Dullah said:
     
    Sven Dullah said:
    freni-kyn said:
    Sven Dullah said:
    freni-kyn said:
    Parris said:
    freni-kyn said:

    And the third is probably operator error but I need some help with it. I followed the instruction for adding a light and messed a bit with intensity but it really seemed to have very little affect on the character. When you say center the light do you mean that we are to put it onto the item we want hit with light?  When I center it using the rotation parameters the light is always behind the character. 

    Boost lights are mesh lights (disks or rectangles) that are out at a distance(equal the edge of the floor plane) and point toward the center of the scene by default. You can rotate the targets on IBL Master to position the light (point at the center of the scene from whatever direction). The main purpose for them is so you can line that little target up to center around a hotspot (like the sun) on your HDRI. This then will match the hotpot's path and rotation so you can boost the light from the HDRI. For this purpose, Boost Lights are really not needed usually for 3Delight renders, because you can just crank up the brightness of the IBLM Light shader, and reduce the brightness of the background (3DLEnvSphere) as needed (Diffuse Strength and Ambient Strength).

    The red target (#1) should light a character facing you if your camera is pointing towards the back of the stage. Anyway, I think the easiest way to get an understanding of it is to watch the YouTube Overiew video. Have you watched that? There is a link in the second post of this thead and it is also in the descrition on the store page. Also, the most thorough documentation, with a new FAQ is on my website here:

    https://www.chrisparrishdesign.com/ibl-master/

    I hope that helps. To help with your eye surface issues, I think we really need to see a close up (maybe hide the hair for that), and some other details about the surface settings for different eye surfaces. Screenshots of you surface settings for the surfaces can really help. Whether you want the burned in highlights that come with the product or ray traced reflections is another question that might involve taking a look at your render settings.

    Thank you for the information.  I'll try those things out.  I did watch the video before making the purchase but I probably need to watch it again.  I've switched out her skin materials with a 3delight material and switched my render to bucket mode but now the skin comes out really grainy. 

    I assume you mean 3DL default mode ( progressive off)? In render settings pane try set sample pixels to min 5x5 but possibly up to 10x10. Be sure you have gamma correction on and gamma at 2.20. Sample rate to max 0.2. Try the Catmull-Rom filter at 2x2. If you mean that shaded areas are grainy you need to up the diffuse samples in IBL Master light settings from the default 16 to 32 or possibly more.

    Thanks I figured it out but I'll still try those settings.  My main issue is that I could not get shadows to show no matter what I did.  It turned out that one of my iradiance hdr images does not work correctly, or at least I could not get it to work.  I switched to a different one and set my settings back to default and now it has realistic shading.  It's a shame because I liked the other background better but was making me crazy to mess with.  My new problem is that my character seems to be floating a couple of inches off the ground.  I tried to select her and use Y to move her down but all that did was move her clothing and hair, which kind of weirds me out since I can not move her at all now. 

    I'm including two partial renders.  I stopped both of them as soon as I saw that the one with the blue background was floating and face was too dark, And the one with the yellow background I tilted at a crazy angle, which apparently makes her not look like she is floating and puts nice light on the face, but I did not like the shadows on her body.  I really wish I had screen shot the angles I tilted the background sphere for that as I've not been able to duplicate it. 

    Good to hear you're making progress:) Yeah not all hdr's cast direct light but you can still use them as sky backdrop/dome independently of your light source HDRI. I have no idea why you had problems moving your character. Surely the cloths and hair were fitted to the character? Did you try to save the scene under a new name and reboot DS? It'll be a nice render when you get it all sorted out=)

    ETA:I can see from the renders that you actually used progressive mode, so you don't have to worry about filter settings or shading rate values then as they are inactive in progressive:) And on my machine progressive renders 3 times faster than default;)

    Yes I fitted the clothing.  And I posed her after fitting. I'm not really sure when it stopped letting me move her.  Maybe when I changed some of her base shape so that she looked less thin.  I've never had this happen before unless things were not fitted.  I'd just reload the clothing but that would not make the translate thing work on the character.  No I have not tried saving under a new name and checking it that way.  Good idea.  I'm wondering if this is a glitch with the Sakura 8 figure. I had a 49-50 mix dialed in but decided to change the body to 100% another figure because I did not like Sakura 8 arms.  They looked too much like a barbie doll to me.  Maybe when you dial out the sakura body the clothing and hair stops fitting.  Still does not explain why I can't move her. 

    EDIT:  I saved under a new name and reloaded it and am now able to use y translate.  Thank you!!!  Still don't know what caused it but so grateful that it worked.

    Glad I could help, it must have been a glitch, strange things happen eventually;)

    freni-kyn said:

    I have had progressive turned off ever since I read in here that it works better with it off.  Those were my last render attempts of that figure and I thought it odd that they rendered that way too.  It basically renders a low res version and then goes back and clarifies it.  Including screen captures of my render settings.

    Well actually, as I mentioned, for me progressive works much better with IBLM, way faster rendering. And it renders in 4 passes so that's absolutely normal. Just to clarify: With progressive on shading rate and filter settings are inactive, quality is controlled by the raytrace depth(set it to 1 unless you have multiple reflective/refractive surfaces in your scene) and pixel samples(set them to min. 4x4, 10x10 is a good number, 32x32 is overkill). With progressive off you need to adjust shading rate and pixel filters. Higher shading rate renders faster, lower gives you a sharper picture. You had it at 1, a good value would be 0.1-0.2. The pixel filters add blur and work as antialiasing/denoiser. My favorite is Catmull-Rom at 2x2. Sinc is the default, it looks good but avoid setting it to more than about 7x7, it will start ringing at some point, causing artifacts if set too high.

    freni-kyn said:

    How do I use the backdrop independantly of the hdr light source?  I gave up on hdr and all my domes except terra dome a while back because I usually work in iray and I could not control the light source easily so I am not really sure how to use the hdr stuff.

    You can hide the IBLM environment sphere in the scene tab and load a 3DL skydome ( be sure it doesn't cast shadows, select it then go to parameters/display/shadows off), you can change the sky diffuse map in the surface pane to an image of your liking. Set diffuse color to pure white and diffuse strength to 0. Load the same diffuse map into the ambient color slot and set color to pure white and ambient strength to 100%. If it's too bright just decrease ambient strength. Or just hide the environment sphere and in the environment pane change to backdrop and load a sky image. It will be locked to the camera so can't be rotated.

  • freni-kynfreni-kyn Posts: 394
    Sven Dullah said:
    freni-kyn said:
    Sven Dullah said:
     
    Sven Dullah said:
    freni-kyn said:
    Sven Dullah said:
    freni-kyn said:
    Parris said:
    freni-kyn said:

    And the third is probably operator error but I need some help with it. I followed the instruction for adding a light and messed a bit with intensity but it really seemed to have very little affect on the character. When you say center the light do you mean that we are to put it onto the item we want hit with light?  When I center it using the rotation parameters the light is always behind the character. 

    Boost lights are mesh lights (disks or rectangles) that are out at a distance(equal the edge of the floor plane) and point toward the center of the scene by default. You can rotate the targets on IBL Master to position the light (point at the center of the scene from whatever direction). The main purpose for them is so you can line that little target up to center around a hotspot (like the sun) on your HDRI. This then will match the hotpot's path and rotation so you can boost the light from the HDRI. For this purpose, Boost Lights are really not needed usually for 3Delight renders, because you can just crank up the brightness of the IBLM Light shader, and reduce the brightness of the background (3DLEnvSphere) as needed (Diffuse Strength and Ambient Strength).

    The red target (#1) should light a character facing you if your camera is pointing towards the back of the stage. Anyway, I think the easiest way to get an understanding of it is to watch the YouTube Overiew video. Have you watched that? There is a link in the second post of this thead and it is also in the descrition on the store page. Also, the most thorough documentation, with a new FAQ is on my website here:

    https://www.chrisparrishdesign.com/ibl-master/

    I hope that helps. To help with your eye surface issues, I think we really need to see a close up (maybe hide the hair for that), and some other details about the surface settings for different eye surfaces. Screenshots of you surface settings for the surfaces can really help. Whether you want the burned in highlights that come with the product or ray traced reflections is another question that might involve taking a look at your render settings.

    Thank you for the information.  I'll try those things out.  I did watch the video before making the purchase but I probably need to watch it again.  I've switched out her skin materials with a 3delight material and switched my render to bucket mode but now the skin comes out really grainy. 

    I assume you mean 3DL default mode ( progressive off)? In render settings pane try set sample pixels to min 5x5 but possibly up to 10x10. Be sure you have gamma correction on and gamma at 2.20. Sample rate to max 0.2. Try the Catmull-Rom filter at 2x2. If you mean that shaded areas are grainy you need to up the diffuse samples in IBL Master light settings from the default 16 to 32 or possibly more.

    Thanks I figured it out but I'll still try those settings.  My main issue is that I could not get shadows to show no matter what I did.  It turned out that one of my iradiance hdr images does not work correctly, or at least I could not get it to work.  I switched to a different one and set my settings back to default and now it has realistic shading.  It's a shame because I liked the other background better but was making me crazy to mess with.  My new problem is that my character seems to be floating a couple of inches off the ground.  I tried to select her and use Y to move her down but all that did was move her clothing and hair, which kind of weirds me out since I can not move her at all now. 

    I'm including two partial renders.  I stopped both of them as soon as I saw that the one with the blue background was floating and face was too dark, And the one with the yellow background I tilted at a crazy angle, which apparently makes her not look like she is floating and puts nice light on the face, but I did not like the shadows on her body.  I really wish I had screen shot the angles I tilted the background sphere for that as I've not been able to duplicate it. 

    Good to hear you're making progress:) Yeah not all hdr's cast direct light but you can still use them as sky backdrop/dome independently of your light source HDRI. I have no idea why you had problems moving your character. Surely the cloths and hair were fitted to the character? Did you try to save the scene under a new name and reboot DS? It'll be a nice render when you get it all sorted out=)

    ETA:I can see from the renders that you actually used progressive mode, so you don't have to worry about filter settings or shading rate values then as they are inactive in progressive:) And on my machine progressive renders 3 times faster than default;)

    Yes I fitted the clothing.  And I posed her after fitting. I'm not really sure when it stopped letting me move her.  Maybe when I changed some of her base shape so that she looked less thin.  I've never had this happen before unless things were not fitted.  I'd just reload the clothing but that would not make the translate thing work on the character.  No I have not tried saving under a new name and checking it that way.  Good idea.  I'm wondering if this is a glitch with the Sakura 8 figure. I had a 49-50 mix dialed in but decided to change the body to 100% another figure because I did not like Sakura 8 arms.  They looked too much like a barbie doll to me.  Maybe when you dial out the sakura body the clothing and hair stops fitting.  Still does not explain why I can't move her. 

    EDIT:  I saved under a new name and reloaded it and am now able to use y translate.  Thank you!!!  Still don't know what caused it but so grateful that it worked.

    Glad I could help, it must have been a glitch, strange things happen eventually;)

    freni-kyn said:

    I have had progressive turned off ever since I read in here that it works better with it off.  Those were my last render attempts of that figure and I thought it odd that they rendered that way too.  It basically renders a low res version and then goes back and clarifies it.  Including screen captures of my render settings.

    Well actually, as I mentioned, for me progressive works much better with IBLM, way faster rendering. And it renders in 4 passes so that's absolutely normal. Just to clarify: With progressive on shading rate and filter settings are inactive, quality is controlled by the raytrace depth(set it to 1 unless you have multiple reflective/refractive surfaces in your scene) and pixel samples(set them to min. 4x4, 10x10 is a good number, 32x32 is overkill). With progressive off you need to adjust shading rate and pixel filters. Higher shading rate renders faster, lower gives you a sharper picture. You had it at 1, a good value would be 0.1-0.2. The pixel filters add blur and work as antialiasing/denoiser. My favorite is Catmull-Rom at 2x2. Sinc is the default, it looks good but avoid setting it to more than about 7x7, it will start ringing at some point, causing artifacts if set too high.

    freni-kyn said:

    How do I use the backdrop independantly of the hdr light source?  I gave up on hdr and all my domes except terra dome a while back because I usually work in iray and I could not control the light source easily so I am not really sure how to use the hdr stuff.

    You can hide the IBLM environment sphere in the scene tab and load a 3DL skydome ( be sure it doesn't cast shadows, select it then go to parameters/display/shadows off), you can change the sky diffuse map in the surface pane to an image of your liking. Set diffuse color to pure white and diffuse strength to 0. Load the same diffuse map into the ambient color slot and set color to pure white and ambient strength to 100%. If it's too bright just decrease ambient strength. Or just hide the environment sphere and in the environment pane change to backdrop and load a sky image. It will be locked to the camera so can't be rotated.

    Thanks!  I'll give all these suggestions a try.  Right now I'm trying out the dforce master hair simulation.  Once I get that done I'll go back to working on the render settings.  Hopefully soon I will have something worth showing off.

     

  • freni-kynfreni-kyn Posts: 394

    I hate to be throwing issues one after another at you but I had another weird thing happen.  Normally I would run dforce before putting in my background but I decided after the fact that I did not like how her hair was sitting on her shoulder.  So I ran it and the hair seemed to static to the ball as if it was a balloon.  I'm posting both a screen capture and a small render I did to check it.  Are the two, ibl master and dforce, incompatible?

    desert map3 ball hair issue.png
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    dforce-ibl ball issue.PNG
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  • freni-kynfreni-kyn Posts: 394
    edited January 2018
    Sven Dullah said:
    Well actually, as I mentioned, for me progressive works much better with IBLM, way faster rendering. And it renders in 4 passes so that's absolutely normal. Just to clarify: With progressive on shading rate and filter settings are inactive, quality is controlled by the raytrace depth(set it to 1 unless you have multiple reflective/refractive surfaces in your scene) and pixel samples(set them to min. 4x4, 10x10 is a good number, 32x32 is overkill). With progressive off you need to adjust shading rate and pixel filters. Higher shading rate renders faster, lower gives you a sharper picture. You had it at 1, a good value would be 0.1-0.2. The pixel filters add blur and work as antialiasing/denoiser. My favorite is Catmull-Rom at 2x2. Sinc is the default, it looks good but avoid setting it to more than about 7x7, it will start ringing at some point, causing artifacts if set too high.

    I just tried this and I do like the results better.  My renders for this are just at my preview size so far but this seemed to remove the grainy problem I had in some of the shadows, and the flower line issue.  I think it took a little longer to render than the bucket render method, but quality is important to me.  I hope it looks just as good when I do a really large image size.  I also went on and rendered it in iray.  It has some shadows on the face I'm not keen on that I think are from the flowers so I will have to render it an extra time without the flowers to get a cleaner render of the face and the hair needs a lot of postwork unless I can figure out how to get dforce to work in iblm.  I liked that I could render without the dome so that I can quickly create a mask for the foreground things, in this case the girl figure, grass. and flowers.  The 3delight took 8 minutes at this size, the iray 12.  Any tips anyone wants to throw at me are welcome.

    One question:  What is Catmull-Rom at 2x2? 

    desert map-progressive render.png
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    desert map-iray.png
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    Post edited by freni-kyn on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited January 2018
    freni-kyn said:
     

    One question:  What is Catmull-Rom at 2x2? 

    In render settings editor for 3DL if you render in default mode (not progressive) there is something called filters. You can choose frome a couple of different types and set x and y values for them.

    If progressive is checked there are no filter options.

    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • Geminii23Geminii23 Posts: 1,327

    So I am having a problem loading the IBL Master.  I am on Daz 4.10 and installed through DIM.  I checked my drive and the file does exist.  I tried to uninstall and re-install through DIM, still same problem.  Any ideas?

     

    IBL Error.jpeg
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    Folder.jpeg
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  • freni-kynfreni-kyn Posts: 394
    Geminii23 said:

    So I am having a problem loading the IBL Master.  I am on Daz 4.10 and installed through DIM.  I checked my drive and the file does exist.  I tried to uninstall and re-install through DIM, still same problem.  Any ideas?

     

    I loaded through content manager.  Here is his site.  It has instructions that are very useful.  https://www.chrisparrishdesign.com/ibl-master/

     

  • Geminii23Geminii23 Posts: 1,327
    freni-kyn said:
    Geminii23 said:

    So I am having a problem loading the IBL Master.  I am on Daz 4.10 and installed through DIM.  I checked my drive and the file does exist.  I tried to uninstall and re-install through DIM, still same problem.  Any ideas?

     

    I loaded through content manager.  Here is his site.  It has instructions that are very useful.  https://www.chrisparrishdesign.com/ibl-master/

     

    Yes.  I get same error if going through Content Library tab.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,057

    ... looks good pathwise but what is "Drobo"?

  • Geminii23Geminii23 Posts: 1,327
    kyoto kid said:

    ... looks good pathwise but what is "Drobo"?

    Drobo is my external RAID.  It is connected USB3 though so no issues since everything for DAZ is installed here and other products loading fine.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,057
    edited January 2018

    ..ah you must have the "coffee can" Mac Pro then. 

    If the other Daz products on the drive load fine then I'm also a bit befuddled why you are getting the error.  I have everything on a separate library drive as well and IBL Master loads just fine. I even tested it without a scene (thought that may have been part of the issue) but it loaded without a hitch.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • Geminii23Geminii23 Posts: 1,327
    edited January 2018
    kyoto kid said:

    ..ah you must have the "coffee can" Mac Pro then. 

    If the other Daz products on the drive load fine then I'm also a bit befuddled why yo uare getting the error.  I have everything on a separate library drive as well and IBL Master loads just fine. I even tested it without a scene (thought that may have been part of the issue) but it loaded without a hitch.

    I like to call it the "trash can" Pro but yes.

    Ok, so I decided to try something.  I selected Uninstall of the product and the thumbnail turned grey.  I re-installed (which I guess means it went out to DAZ Connect) and now it works.  Weird.  

    DAZ has been very frustrating to me lately with DIM vs Daz Connect stuff.  They told me I should Not be installing via both, but I keep running into this where things don't work correct via DIM and then I try the Smart Connect method and it works. 

    Post edited by Geminii23 on
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