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Impressive!
Does the dForce engine support rigid bodies? For example, adding a modifier to earrings?
No, I'm afraid not - pity as I was hoping to be able to do things like barding. You may be able to get close enough by having a flexible dForce ribbon or the like and make the hard elements rigid foillow nodes of that.
So far I've managed by just manually adjusting them, used the Joint Editor to change the pivots so I can more easily rotate thing wherever force or gravity would dictate. Would be a nice feature to see in the future though.
...first off, apologies for bringing this thread back to life,
So tonight I decided to do a little experimentation just to get a bit of hands on time with dForce to see what it all involves. Again having old tech, I pretty much knew that sims would take a bit of time. but it is what I didn't expect to deal with afterwards that I found a bit disconcerting.
As a couple bundles I have include some dForce clothing items, so I decided to give it a try using a fairly simple one I have, the Mabel Dress. I first converted it to G3 (using the RSSY G8 -> G3 clothing conversion script) so I could use it with an existing character. Running the sim after posing the character took about four and a half minutes on a 750 Ti, which got me to thinking about how much longer more involved clothing would take as the clothing dress was fairly simple and straightforward.
Anyway the draping looked very good. so I decided to render the character using a simple photo shoot HDR and that is where I ran into a serious issue of poke through the liked i have not seen since working with the old clothing converters back in the Gen3/4 days. .I tried everything I could think to, adjusting smoothing, adjusting collision iterations, and using the various adjustment morphs that came with the product, but just could not get rid of it. In the Open GL (shaded mode) viewport it looked fine, but after rendering it looked as if it was moth eaten.
This as a bit of a disappointment as the time for the sim to complete is one matter, but having to spend even more time performing a manual clean up afterwards is not something I expected. and would seriously impact the workflow (I spent about an hour just trying to solve the poke through issue only to get nowhere with it). Wondering if others are running into ths and if so is there something I'm not doing (or don't know of) before the sim to keep this from occurring?.
that could be a displacement issue
and that is also how I personally would solve it,
place the cutout opacity maps for the clothing in the displacement channel and make sure there is no minimum vlaue
....Thanks, I'll givew that a try. Other than that it looked very nice.
When I get the new display to replace the one that died I will be able to hook up the Titan to two monitors as the card only has one DVI port while rest are DirectConnect (which is why I only used it for rendering), so the sims should run a bit faster.
...ah there are no opacity maps but setting the minimum displacment to 0 fixed the issue.
...Thank you.
The buttons kind of lined up odd and deformed on the first attempts but otherwise works pretty good. Characters with petite physiques have always had this issue in the chest region when it comes to texture details.
Hard to believe that dForce Cloth was first introduced 3 and a half years ago (2017). Since that time, roughly 2 years later, we got dForce Hair. I was just curious if DS is ever going to get native support for other common simulation types like soft body, rigid body, ragdoll, ropes/cables, particles (native), fluids (native), etc?
- Greg
Would be good. Being able to remove individual key frames or move them along the timeline would be good too.
In a dForce simulation the edges of the mesh are treated as springs, and the simulation is aiming to minimise the energy in the springs as determined by gravity, any wind, and the properties of the surface settings. One of the properties is an offset, the minimum separation between two vertices. If edges are shorter than the offset then that is effectively pumping energy into the system - the spring has to be stretched beyond its rest length to satisfy the minimum value - so you get warnings. if there are a lot of edges like that, in an area that is active in the simulation, then it will at best slow the process and at worst will cause the simulation to get into a feedback loop and explode the cloth.
No but you may want to reduce the Collision Offset from it's default value to 0.05 or lower. I do that for a lot of clothing items to eliminate the problem. You find this parameter in the Simulation section under the Surface Pane. There might be multiple surfaces in a garment that need the adjustment made.
I expect any significant enhancements will appear in DS5 (whenever that finally arrives)
Is Dforce only for Nvidia gpus? I have Amd RX 6700 XT windows 10 64bit Everything up to date. I can not get Dforce to work for me. Its been years since I used it. I feel left out. Out of this feature.
...I can understand a mesh collision causing the Daz programme to crash, but I have been experiencing display driver rashes lately as well. When this happens I have to restart the system to restore the driver as one of my dual displays loses signal. This has only started to happen recently even though it worked fine in the current version of Daz I am using. Tried running a sim under the previous 4.20 beta (which i never had trouble with) and it crashed the display driver as well.
Specifications:
Daz 4.21.0.5, General release on Windows 7 64 bit, 24 GB System Memory with virtual memory partition/paging set to 24 GB/48 GB Max, GPU: Titan-X Maxwell" 12 GB VRAM and OpenCL ver. 3.0. on Nvidia diver 473.96.(desktop-win7-64bit-international-whql).
Note Windows 7 does not support Nvida Studio drivers.
I understand that NVidia stopped supporting Windows 7 (other than critical security updates) a couple of years ago. What driver version does DS 4.21.0.5 require? I'm on my phone atm, but isn't a later driver version required?
- Greg
...I know, so that is why I am stuck at the 4.21.0.5 General release as that is the last version of Daz that supports a W7 driver (471.41.for GPU rendering). The one I'm using, 473..62, is one of the security update ones.
My MB is old (X58 purchased in 2011) and doesn't comply with W11's TPM 2.0 requirement.
With Windows 10 at it's last update cycle and EOL occurring in January 2025, better to just go with 11. at this point. This means a somewhat costly upgrade (on my budget (bout 760$) for a new MB memory and CPU and 500GB NAND M2 SSD boot drive (no point in new drives for my Daz content library and storage along with an RTX 3060 and PSU as they are fairly new).
I also just discovered there's a new security update. for W7/W8, 474.44, and downloaded it, haven't installed yet..
Will dForce stop exploding at some point in the future?
The explosion of dForce has been a very big obstacle in making many animated videos.
Geernally explosions are down to a couple of things
Thank you for your answer.
If you want to create a still image, there are ways around the current situation.
However, when creating animation, there are many situations where we want poses with intersecting meshes.
There are also very fast movements, such as combat action.
The current dForce can explode even if the wind is strong enough.
Current dForce has many problems, such as very time-consuming motion settings and parameter settings when creating animations, and low quality motion movies.
Is there no inertial mass? Centrifugal force on the cloth when it is swung around does not work well.
It would be great if the tool was more suitable for motion movies.
Objects can't interpentrate in real life either, as I said above you could use a dForm to ensure that the (presumably hidden) intersecting areas were pulled apart.
Dealing with cases where the simulation can't keep up requires adjusting the Simulation Settings so that the algorithm can difuse the energy in the available steps.
Whether or not we should follow the physical laws of reality in art is a different topic, so let's leave it at that for once.
If the Genesis figure were physically perfect and, like a real human being, the compressed bodies would not interfere with each other by indenting or repelling each other, no matter what the pose, the clothing would not be pinched into another dimension.
In some cases, when producing animations with current Genesis figures, explosions must be escaped by unnatural motions.
Even if the swinging arm just snatches the clothing, it will explode. If the fabric flaps with a fast action, the trajectory of the arm may have to be changed, and in some cases, the intended motion cannot be used.
In some cases, if the motion sold in the Daz store is used as is, the figure will explode.
"If you change the motion, it won't explode” means ”you can't use the motion you want.”
This is not a solution to the problem.
dForce is described as a Physics Engine.
However, my impression from using it in an animated movie is that it is more like a mathematical model of an imaginary cloth-like sheet than a physical model of a real cloth.
It also feels more like a rubber sheet than a cloth.
It doesn't exist in reality, it “weighs less” but has “greater inertial mass (!)” and it feels like a “very stretchy” rubber sheet.
The dForce cloth spring feels like a “pull spring”.
When you pull on it, it stretches as much as it can.
Real cloth has a fixed maximum elongation rate and does not stretch beyond the maximum value when pulled.
Real cloth seems to behave like a “push-spring” toward the maximum elongation rate.
The “push spring” will never go beyond zero.
Depending on the type of cloth, the spring constant may also be nonlinear, since real cloth suddenly becomes more resilient near the maximum elongation rate.
While this may not be a concern in the production of still images, it is often a concern in animated videos because dForce clothing often moves in unnatural ways that are unfamiliar in the real world.
The behaviour does depend on the geometry, and on the Simulation Settings in general. The defaults are likely to need tweaking for different fabric types or mesh densities. I am not aware of any cloth engine that actually simulates woven or knitted fibres, let alone tanned hide ot the like.