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select the circle only... then select path sweep then the bottom point of the polyline to go up... also put your circle on an angle to match the polyline before you sweep it
Thank you I kept selecting the circle then just clicking anywhere on the path.
Back again. I made this shape (one end of a dumbbell) on page 51 of this thread. Decided to make it again but for the life of me I can't get it to duplicate with symmetry across the axis I want. No matter where I try to set the working box it duplicates to the side and not on the top. I can't get it to select the plane on top of the selected edge loop. I know the last time I did this I had this object cut in half like this.
Ok I got it to work once again then I used undo tried again and it went back to putting the working box on the side and not the top. So is this just finicky or what?
Ok if i fill the selected edge loop then I have no problem get the working box to align where I want it but the resulting object is screwed up at the intersection. I still have my original file with the one time I got it to work but for the life of me I'm not sure how I did that... because I don't know how to the working plane where I want it with an open portion of a model.
Hi brother grim,
I don't know anyting about the working box, sorry, but to duplicate with symmetry in the modelling room you may need to toggle that icon just beneath the camera Dolly icon (pink arrow pointing to it in picture).
Here are my results using Edit > Duplicate With Symmetry on all 3 axis, X Red, Y Green and Z Blue.
Never understood why it behaves different from the Assembly Room version. I usually have these offset symmetrical duplicates that I have to manually align with the other half and then Weld.
Does the alignment of the Working Box help in this wonky offeset duplicate stuff?
Hope I'm not muddying the waters.
Here is how I usually resolve the weird offest:
In this example I have duplicated along the 'Y' axis and Carrara for some reason has inconvenientaly offset my duplicate... (most likely my misunderstanding / error)
My original selection is located at -0.38m on the Y axis.
My duplicate is at -3.28 m (wt?...)
So I select my duplicate, and send it to 0.38m on the Y axis and it aligns properly.
Then weld
Thanks for the response DesertDude and the tip for fixing that wierd offset when mirroring. I think these images might make it a little more clear on what I'm trying to accomplish (and actualy did once).
I've taken this hexagon and removed one of the faces, selected the edgeloop got the working box where I want it. Now what I want to do is duplicate this object so the duplicate object fits on top is flipped and welded together with the original for a new object. However when I use duplicate with symmetry nothing happens. It asks if I want to weld the results I select yes but nothing is created.
See picture two where I got this to work once ( i put a fillet on the the one that worked)
Update I got it to work once more I had forgotten to to select the whole object before duplicating. I wanted to practice this again so I undid my steps I undid duplicate with symmetry, reset the working box, and started again. This time even tought the working box was on top of the edgeloop it decidied to duplicate to the side of one of the vertecies this just seems finicky ot me.
Finally got it here are 6 screen shots that show how I did it. There may be a better way but this worked for me.
Here's the 6th and final screen shot. Wouldn't post with the others.
good to see you found a way to do it..
what I would do is
move the object just under the bottom plane ( use the front view to line up ) and make sure smoothing is off
select the bottom plane ( working box ) as you did, select the whole model and duplicate with symmetary .. weld if you like..
sometimes I don't weld but after duplicating I will go into wireframe mode, select the vertext selector then select all the points and weld ( or individually ) depending on how complex the mesh it.. best also to do this with smoothing not selected ..
I have a cube with 3 segmnets. Selected the edges of the top two and side two faces then used the exctract along tool to make an outer set of edges I was wonder in there was a way I could do this where the corners of the new edges aren't rounded. Extract along doesn't seem to be the tool for this and after trying some other ideas still not sure how I would do this.
I had a quick go at this...with some failures, but...without knowing exactly the results you are after I took a guess and got these results as follows:
3 x 3 box
I then made all these cuts using the Extract Along tool.
I did this by selecting one edge loop at time, then applied the tool, dragging in whichever direction made sense. I repeated those steps until I had divided the cube, with its sub counterparts as per your example. (Lol, that barely makes sense, hope the pictures help.)
Then, selected the single edge I see in your screen grab as 'creased', did a menu Select > Inverse and turned those to Smooth...
Is this sort of what you are trying to do?
edited yet again to: add the last image with color in the Vertex Modeler. Cheers
That's it exactly what I was going for thanks DesertDude.
Went back to finish this coffee mug (ignore the handle for now I'm not done shaping it). I followed this C4D tutorial on youtube. My main problem areas are where the ends of the handle meet the mug you can see the distortion in the shading in the top handle really well. The bottom of the cup where it meets the handle has the same problem plus it deforms the bottom of the mug after adding subdivision. I added an extra edge loop at the just under the handle and that helped it some but it still distorts the bottom of the mug. So I need some more input from you experienced users on how to fix this.
probably a few things you can try ~ save your basic model before starting
1. first off I'd convert after smoothing then smooth again to see if that tightens up the mesh
2. or maybe I'd select the edges around where the handle meets the cup and extract around and then do 1 again
brother grim, great stuff and quickly advancing to sophisticated topics. i have a couple of thoughts that I suspect are too late for this project but may be helpful down the road.
Here is a general resource on topology and that applies to any software in which the model will have smoothing applied. The site is for character models, but the principles apply elsewhere.
http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Topology
Two Comments on Smoothing
- first - for the mug bottom, when Carrara inserts a cylinder the top and bottom are n-gons, meaning starting with more than 4 points. An edge is 2 points, a tri is 3, a quad is 4, and any more is N. If the bottom and top of an n-gons is left unaddressed, there is wierd stretching with multiple pointy corners. To address, divide the n-gon into quads or tris. Classic modelers prefer all quads.
- second - in general, the smoothing function averages distances between every other point, sort of. So, smoothing does not appear to affect 3 points on a straight line because averaging the two outer points results in a point that is still on the same line. But if there are three points, two of which make a horizontal line, and one point is also the corner point on a vertical line (3 points making a 90 degree angle), then smoothing will move the corner point inward toward an imaginary more direct line connecting the two outer points. So, if smoothing is going to be applied to an object, but we want to preserve the corners, or otherwise minimize the effect on some points, what can be done? One solution is to add additional points closer to the corner. Again, we want to avoid n-gons. So, to add points closer to a corner or other area we want to protect from smoothing we can add edge loops. Or, we can change mess denisty in just part of an area of the mesh by adding internal branches or diamonds.
Smoothing and Edge Loops
The top row in the attached pic are 4 of the many ways to model the corner of an object. The bottom row is the effect of smoothing on the corresponding top model.
- The first column from the left holds the outer shape OK but the corner gets rounded. Look closely at top left. See the points added to the edges away from the corner.
- The second column holds the corner OK, but the outer edges look rounded. See that instead of outer points, it has points closer to the corner.
- The third column holds both the corner and the outer better because it has points in both. However, notice even the third looks a little rounded in the direction of depth.
- The fourth column holds it shape best. It has points bracing the corner, the outer edges, and the sides.
If you use smoothing as part of your modeling process, or the model will be smoothed by the rendering engine, then better topology, often called edge flow, will give the best results. See previous post for a link to a discussion of topology at the website Polycount.
Mug Issue #1 - bottom n-gon.
Pretty easy fix. as stated above, If you are in the vertex modeler and you use the insert construct menu for a cylinder, the default cylinder has n-gons for the top and bottom. In order to preserve the smooth bottom shape of the mug, it is a good idea to selct the bottom, use extrude while holding shift key (to keep the extrude flat) and generate an interior edge loop to preserve the bottom edge. Then you can use tesselate connect vertex to center.
Mug Issue #2 - smoothing effects around where handle meets the mug.
If done as a single object, you need edges that brace the area where they meet. You can either increase the mesh density of the whole mug BEFORE attaching the handles, or you can increase mesh density just around the handle. Or, you can keep the handle separate and just slide in the side of the mug.
See attached a screenshot of how to convert an N-gon by tessalation. Also see a screenshot of a grid that shows one way to increase mesh density of just one area yet preserve all quads. There is a lot more info at the above link for polycount.
Stezza - Thanks for the suggestions - I saved the orginal scene with the un-smoothed model so I could go back and tinker with it. If I turn the smoothing level up to 2 it seems to match the level of one subd modifier in C4D and give me the result I'm looking for. Is there a benefit of converting a level one smoothing then smoothing again as opposed to just adjusting the slider to level 2? Yeah I'm tinkering with edge loops in in different places around the area where the hadle an mug meet.
Diomede - Thanks for all the info and that picture that helps a lot. I'm posting a picture of how I made tris out of the n-gons not sure if it is correct but when I smooth it helps hold the shape. I selected the face extruded in then welded the the vertices, i don't think I used the right option under weld it looks like more than one vert in the center. CD4's default cylinder come in this way with tris at the top and bottom of the cylinder.
Can some one delet this partial double post
Stezza - Thanks for the suggestions - I saved the orginal scene with the un-smoothed model so I could go back and tinker with it. If I turn the smoothing level up to 2 it seems to match the level of one subd modifier in C4D and give me the result I'm looking for. Is there a benefit of converting a level one smoothing then smoothing again as opposed to just adjusting the slider to level 2? Yeah I'm tinkering with edge loops in in different places around the area where the hadle an mug meet.
Diomede - Thanks for all the info and that picture that helps a lot. I'm posting a picture of how I made tris out of the n-gons not sure if it is correct but when I smooth it helps hold the shape. I selected the face extruded in then welded the the vertices. CD4's default cylinder come in this way for some reason.
Here is an example of keeping the mesh density of the top of the mug, the lip, evenly distributed. Yet, there is additional mesh density around where the mug handle attaches. Notice the extra edge on the outside and the inside of where the handle attaches. Going from 1 point to 3 is still a quad. So from the top of the lip, the nornal edge loop starts coming down. Then it splits to 3 points, each of which starts an edge loop downward. The middle edge is the side of the handle. There is an edge on the inside and the outside to brace the attachment of the handle to the mug. And there is an edge above and below to brace.
Note - this is what the lip of the mug and the edge loops around the handle attachment look like without smoothing.
This helps. Trying to replicate this now. I've also noticed the math behind these functions, smooth, bridge, etc.. can very from program to program. For example when bridging the two faces on the handles to make the middle segment of the handle C4D & Carrara form the middle like you would expect in Blender when I use the bridge it twists the the middle segment despite twist being set to zero.
Was using the wrong bridge tool in blender. Found the right one.
Diomede can you post a screen grab with the whole unsmoothed coffe mug in view from the same (or similar) angle I'm still messing stuff up on my mug.
Here is a similar mug. The scale of the handle is not very practical but the basic mesh is similar and uses the same principles.
I will post a series of steps on how I got there. This isn't ideal in terms of total mesh density, or the quickest in number of steps, but it works.
Making a simple mug that is rounded with smoothing, yet a handle is attached in which the edges of attachment are braced to prevent smoothing where handle is joined to the mug.
Here, I've inserted a default cylinder, smoothed all edges, deleted the top, extruded the bottom with shift to get a bottom edge loop, tessalted bottom vertex to center to convert N-gon to triangles, then used dissolve (backspace) to select pairs of traingles and trun them into quads.
Now I select horizontal edges and loop top and bottom side edges (one row from top and bottom of mug) and move them toward the extremes of the mug to brace the lip and the bottom. In this example, I add thickness. I used a very small number when adding thickness. Note, instead of adding thickness, could have kept the top of the cylinder and used extrude multiple times to get the lip and the inside of the mug.
Preparing to attach the handle.
If I don't want the mug to 'smooth' very much where the handle attaches, how do I get more mesh density to provide edges to brace the 'square' (or whatever shape) of the handle profile?
In this case, I am going to add two vertical edges on the inside and outside of the column facing the X axis. I am going to use traingle from the top and bottom pointing vertically to get the extra mesh density. In the horizontal directions, could do something similar but I am just going to extend the extra edges all the way around. Why the difference? The extra horizontal edges will not distort the shape of the sides of the cup, but extra vertical edges will distort the lip.
Why are all my screen attachments disappearing?
Well, something strange is going on when I try to post screenshots. Here is an attampt to post a zip file with the carrara file of the mug.