April New User 3D Art Contest "Open Render" (WIP)

h_habash

Knittingmommy said:

Just thought I would pop my head in.  I like what I'm seeing so far in WIPs.  I still haven't thought about what I'm doing yet so no scenes put together to even try to render out yet. 

@posjon  I like the new pose and the camera angle.  Ditto what h_habash said on the poke thru on the legs and the rail.  As for lighting, what @isidorn said.  It would help to know which render engine you are using. If I had to guess, it looks like 3Delight, but I've been wrong before when trying to guess rendering engines.

@h_habash I really like where you are going with this picnic.  Great idea and you are pulling it off well so far.  Brilliant idea using cylinders for the ants!  you might try making them a little smaller, but they do look great as they are in the last image.  If I made any suggestions, I would move the bird slightly, turning him more toward the picnic like he was thinking of making a raid on the food.  I've had food stolen by birds and squirrels at picnics and they can be crafty little buggers!  I'm not familiar with that bird model.  If you can try turning his head so that it is cocked just a little and turn him in the direction of the food, I think it will add a little something more to the image.  Nice scene, though.

 

Kismet2012 said:

@h_habash - I notice your little bird in the water fountain trying to get a drink.  Your picnic is coming along very nicely.  I like the addition of the ants.  I also agree with isidorn in that even though you may not "see" something your subconcious is aware of it being there.

 

@posjon - I feel your frustration.  You have a great light setup you love but when you render it looks totally different.  The first thought I had, assuming this is a 3DL render, is it could be your shadow settings.  Can you provide a screen shot of your light setup? 

 

posjon said:

h_habash said:

Now I think it's over with this scene, with the latest additional and changes I don't feel there should be extra items to be added to the scene, or any changes unless I've missed something important.

In this final Episode as I like to call, I've added a Squirrel on the left far tree, changed the Sparrows feather color to light yellow and changed one bird location, added the Ants and some Windows Flower Boxes to the buildings, hoping it'll add extra bonus to the scene.

 

Yo! h_habash  I don't have anything to add about what you have done here :) except, Your attention to detail is outstanding! you have done a Great job!

 

Thanks Knittingmommy, Kismet, and Posjon, I've done some small touchup to the scene, now I'm waiting the long journy of render to finish after I changed the setting, until now as I write this the elapsed time is 7 hours 55 minutes, and 35% in the progress ......... and as it going on I can see the deference in the quality thanks Siotrad and Isidorn for your help.

And regarding the Cylinder Ants size I'll try to make it smaller by 50%, I'm waiting the render to finis to see how they'll look like in their new position, in the meantime lets pretend that they are a Giant Ant .

h_habash

Shinji Ikari 9th said:

Here's two views of what I have to start with..

Not too sure which I should expand on though.

I personally prefer the second one, but I suggest to differentiate the gun fire and back wide fire color.

mjc1016

Ok folks, here's a quick tip...

For WIP renders, you can cut the dimensions and even allow 'grain'.  This can dramatically speed up the process of bringing everything together.  Remember, if you are still changing things, all you really need is to see a general idea of what it's going to look like.  After you have everything placed, posed and most of the lighting set, then go 'full size' and do a not quite 'final' render...about 50% or so.  There will still be an 'unfinished' look to it, but you can use that to finalize lighting and surfaces.

This tip works in both 3Delight and Iray.

isidorn

h_habash said:

isidorn said:

7200 seconds are 4 hours if I'm not mistaken. If you set the time to 0 seconds it will take as much time as it needs (until the other requirements are met) so you don't have to worry about that. I would also recommend putting the max samples slider all the way up to 15000. I've made plenty of renders where not even that has been enough and I've had to remove the limit for the max samples. (click that little cogwheel to the upper right of the slider). A render I'm doing now is currently at almost 17000 iterations and counting, with just below 93% converged. You could also try out increasing the render quality and raising converged ratio to 97-98%. I personally always do 97% but that's me. I have no idea if it's optimal or not. 100% converged ratio is apparently very bad though, so best to stay away from that. Increased Quality and converged ratio will of course increase render time, but with time set to 0 that won't be a problem and it will only be a matter of how patient you are to wait until it finishes.

I think the flower boxes by the windows is a stroke of genious. It's that kind of details that really brings out life to the environement. I don't think I would have figured out that the ants are ants if I hadn't known it already, but it's a fun detail for those smarter than me that would figure it out.  They might be a bit on the big side though, but any smaller and they might be too hard to find. So I don't know if they really needs to be changed. Perhaps if their trail went in front of the picnic basket and up the side of it, it could be more easily identified as ants? Could perhaps be worth trying?

But in the end, there comes a point when we have to call our project finished. Otherwise it's easy to keep adding stuff in until the render makes our computer explode.

Thanks Isidorn for the valuable information, appreciate sharing with me your experiences, I will try it once I finish adjusting things I didn't notice in the last render. Defenetly this time the render will take a very long time to finish, I'll try with 0 Max Time, Render Quality 2, and Coveraged Ratio 97%. and will start the render before I go to bed tonight.

The ant's are not the normal ant as we know it , I've created several Cylinder Primatives with scale of 1cm changed the surface color to black, lined it in the way we see in the scene , I'll change their locations and see how they'll look in next render.

Still being a "newbie" myself I'm always happy to share what little I've learned. Looking forward to see the next version of your picnic.

And I have now finally a concept for my own entry and should be able to present a first draft in a day or two, then you can help me with your advice.

h_habash

isidorn said:

h_habash said:

isidorn said:

7200 seconds are 4 hours if I'm not mistaken. If you set the time to 0 seconds it will take as much time as it needs (until the other requirements are met) so you don't have to worry about that. I would also recommend putting the max samples slider all the way up to 15000. I've made plenty of renders where not even that has been enough and I've had to remove the limit for the max samples. (click that little cogwheel to the upper right of the slider). A render I'm doing now is currently at almost 17000 iterations and counting, with just below 93% converged. You could also try out increasing the render quality and raising converged ratio to 97-98%. I personally always do 97% but that's me. I have no idea if it's optimal or not. 100% converged ratio is apparently very bad though, so best to stay away from that. Increased Quality and converged ratio will of course increase render time, but with time set to 0 that won't be a problem and it will only be a matter of how patient you are to wait until it finishes.

I think the flower boxes by the windows is a stroke of genious. It's that kind of details that really brings out life to the environement. I don't think I would have figured out that the ants are ants if I hadn't known it already, but it's a fun detail for those smarter than me that would figure it out.  They might be a bit on the big side though, but any smaller and they might be too hard to find. So I don't know if they really needs to be changed. Perhaps if their trail went in front of the picnic basket and up the side of it, it could be more easily identified as ants? Could perhaps be worth trying?

But in the end, there comes a point when we have to call our project finished. Otherwise it's easy to keep adding stuff in until the render makes our computer explode.

Thanks Isidorn for the valuable information, appreciate sharing with me your experiences, I will try it once I finish adjusting things I didn't notice in the last render. Defenetly this time the render will take a very long time to finish, I'll try with 0 Max Time, Render Quality 2, and Coveraged Ratio 97%. and will start the render before I go to bed tonight.

The ant's are not the normal ant as we know it , I've created several Cylinder Primatives with scale of 1cm changed the surface color to black, lined it in the way we see in the scene , I'll change their locations and see how they'll look in next render.

Still being a "newbie" myself I'm always happy to share what little I've learned. Looking forward to see the next version of your picnic.

And I have now finally a concept for my own entry and should be able to present a first draft in a day or two, then you can help me with your advice.

I'll do my best for sure, and thanks again.

isidorn

Shinji Ikari 9th said:

Here's two views of what I have to start with..

Not too sure which I should expand on though.

I prefer the full figure, but I'm a "full figure fanatic", almost all renders I do are full figure. Close ups and cropped images can certainly be very dramatic though.

I suppose that reply wasn't at all very helpful...

isidorn

mjc1016 said:

Ok folks, here's a quick tip...

For WIP renders, you can cut the dimensions and even allow 'grain'.  This can dramatically speed up the process of bringing everything together.  Remember, if you are still changing things, all you really need is to see a general idea of what it's going to look like.  After you have everything placed, posed and most of the lighting set, then go 'full size' and do a not quite 'final' render...about 50% or so.  There will still be an 'unfinished' look to it, but you can use that to finalize lighting and surfaces.

This tip works in both 3Delight and Iray.

I could use this as the start up screen for DAZ. I know this, but always forget it when it's time to start rendering...

h_habash

mjc1016 said:

Ok folks, here's a quick tip...

For WIP renders, you can cut the dimensions and even allow 'grain'.  This can dramatically speed up the process of bringing everything together.  Remember, if you are still changing things, all you really need is to see a general idea of what it's going to look like.  After you have everything placed, posed and most of the lighting set, then go 'full size' and do a not quite 'final' render...about 50% or so.  There will still be an 'unfinished' look to it, but you can use that to finalize lighting and surfaces.

This tip works in both 3Delight and Iray.

This is a great tip, I never thinkd about before, I'll follow this on my second entry , instead of waiting for hours or days to complete 100% of render, and find that something wrong with your scene is a real frustrating and disappointing, Thanks for the tip Mjc1016.

DAZ_ann0314

There has been a rule clarification on Rule #8. Please review the rules when you have a chance. If you have any questions about that rule or any other, please feel free to PM me here or contact me directly [email protected]

Thanks! and Happy Rendering!

Kismet2012

@posjon - To tell which render engine you are using go to the Render Tab or from the menu along the top Render/Render Settings.  Click on Render Settings.  You will see 3 tabs:  Presets, Editor, Advanced.  You want Editor.  Just below that you will see Engine and a drop down box.  In the box it will tell you which render engine you are using.  I believe DS now defaults to Iray.  In my example I have it set for 3DL.

 

Once you have figured out which render engine you are using ( or want to use ), can you please take another screenshot of your lights including the Paramaters Tab?  This is where the information on light intensity and shadow settings is located.

 

 

Kismet2012

Shinji Ikari 9th said:

Here's two views of what I have to start with..

Not too sure which I should expand on though.

You could continue to work on both versions.  Most of the changes you will make to one is going to affect the other.  Sometimes having those 2 different angles can be helpful.  One shows the overall environment and the other shows closer details.  Both have merit.  Especially in a WIP thread.

lucasdestoop

A first try

 

isidorn

lucasdestoop said:

A first try

 

I see I'm not the only one who couldn't resist buying the fantasy samurai  The leather seems very shiny though, like plastic , pvc. But maybe that's intentional?

Water effects are cool, but I'm not sure what would be causing those water splashes in this scene. She's on a platform on what seems to be a calm sea. Some ripples where the water meets the platform seems to be the only thing that would have a natural explanation for being there. But this obviously being a fantasy scene, natural explanations aren't always necessary. Looking forward to see where you'll go with this.

lucasdestoop

isidorn said:

lucasdestoop said:

A first try

 

I see I'm not the only one who couldn't resist buying the fantasy samurai  The leather seems very shiny though, like plastic , pvc. But maybe that's intentional?

Water effects are cool, but I'm not sure what would be causing those water splashes in this scene. She's on a platform on what seems to be a calm sea. Some ripples where the water meets the platform seems to be the only thing that would have a natural explanation for being there. But this obviously being a fantasy scene, natural explanations aren't always necessary. Looking forward to see where you'll go with this.

No I couldn't :). The leather is pvc. I tried to get some reflection from the IBL light. The sea ans splashes  are there because i haven't found anything else yet, to fill the image. I was thinking of adding another figure. I will try the leather first. Thx

dracorn

Shinji Ikari 9th said:

Here's two views of what I have to start with..

Not too sure which I should expand on though.

I like the up close and personal pic.  It's much more dramatic.  What will make it really pop is his expression.  I find that 'eyes down' closes the lids and gives the character a sleepy look.  You want this guy to have murder in his eyes - he means business!  So raise the top lids until the whites of his eyes are showing above the iris.  Also, show us some snarling teeth. 

His stance is very casual for a guy who's firing a gun with something blowing up behind him - unless he's ice man or something.  I suggest widening that stance, exaggerate some and make him crouch just a little for more action - it doesn't matter if you can't see his legs in the cropped view, you will see the change in his pelvis.  If not, back away a touch so we can see his thighs.

The concept comes from one of my favorite art books - 'How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way.'  There's a great chapter on posing - the exaggeration adds drama, action and the over the top feel that would really benefit a scene like this.

Shinji Ikari 9th

dracorn said:

Shinji Ikari 9th said:

Here's two views of what I have to start with..

Not too sure which I should expand on though.

I like the up close and personal pic.  It's much more dramatic.  What will make it really pop is his expression.  I find that 'eyes down' closes the lids and gives the character a sleepy look.  You want this guy to have murder in his eyes - he means business!  So raise the top lids until the whites of his eyes are showing above the iris.  Also, show us some snarling teeth. 

His stance is very casual for a guy who's firing a gun with something blowing up behind him - unless he's ice man or something.  I suggest widening that stance, exaggerate some and make him crouch just a little for more action - it doesn't matter if you can't see his legs in the cropped view, you will see the change in his pelvis.  If not, back away a touch so we can see his thighs.

The concept comes from one of my favorite art books - 'How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way.'  There's a great chapter on posing - the exaggeration adds drama, action and the over the top feel that would really benefit a scene like this.

Thanks for your input dracorn, I personaly prefer the close up version as well.

Unfortunetly I already rendered these befor reading your post. I'll keep it in mind when I make my next changes.

(I've notice a few things that will need tweeked when I rendered the up close one.

h_habash

Finally the render finished at 1 Day 3 Hours, Wow, I will keep this in my mind for next time I hit Render button .

I know it is because the number of items put in the scene, plus the computer speed and GPU usage.

Here is my last Spring Picnic, I did some corrections for better look, the big deference will be with the wooden tent and the bird sneaking near it, and the Giant Ant position . and I like it this way.

h_habash

Shinji Ikari 9th said:

dracorn said:

Shinji Ikari 9th said:

Here's two views of what I have to start with..

Not too sure which I should expand on though.

I like the up close and personal pic.  It's much more dramatic.  What will make it really pop is his expression.  I find that 'eyes down' closes the lids and gives the character a sleepy look.  You want this guy to have murder in his eyes - he means business!  So raise the top lids until the whites of his eyes are showing above the iris.  Also, show us some snarling teeth. 

His stance is very casual for a guy who's firing a gun with something blowing up behind him - unless he's ice man or something.  I suggest widening that stance, exaggerate some and make him crouch just a little for more action - it doesn't matter if you can't see his legs in the cropped view, you will see the change in his pelvis.  If not, back away a touch so we can see his thighs.

The concept comes from one of my favorite art books - 'How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way.'  There's a great chapter on posing - the exaggeration adds drama, action and the over the top feel that would really benefit a scene like this.

Thanks for your input dracorn, I personaly prefer the close up version as well.

Unfortunetly I already rendered these befor reading your post. I'll keep it in mind when I make my next changes.

(I've notice a few things that will need tweeked when I rendered the up close one.

This looks better, the back fire effect looks great and well positioned.

posjon

Kismet2012 said:

@posjon - To tell which render engine you are using go to the Render Tab or from the menu along the top Render/Render Settings.  Click on Render Settings.  You will see 3 tabs:  Presets, Editor, Advanced.  You want Editor.  Just below that you will see Engine and a drop down box.  In the box it will tell you which render engine you are using.  I believe DS now defaults to Iray.  In my example I have it set for 3DL.

 

Once you have figured out which render engine you are using ( or want to use ), can you please take another screenshot of your lights including the Paramaters Tab?  This is where the information on light intensity and shadow settings is located.

 

Kismet2012 Thank you! ok first of all you are correct Iray is the default as I hadn't changed it & was able to confirm.  Here's a pic, I noticed that on my paramaters tab that I don't have shadow?!  I have been accessing the light intensity under a different tab lights & cameras here I see the listing of shadow however this one is ghosted.? Again thank you for your time & help!

 

posjon

posjon said:

Kismet2012 said:

@posjon - To tell which render engine you are using go to the Render Tab or from the menu along the top Render/Render Settings.  Click on Render Settings.  You will see 3 tabs:  Presets, Editor, Advanced.  You want Editor.  Just below that you will see Engine and a drop down box.  In the box it will tell you which render engine you are using.  I believe DS now defaults to Iray.  In my example I have it set for 3DL.

 

Once you have figured out which render engine you are using ( or want to use ), can you please take another screenshot of your lights including the Paramaters Tab?  This is where the information on light intensity and shadow settings is located.

 

Kismet2012 Thank you! ok first of all you are correct Iray is the default as I hadn't changed it & was able to confirm.  Here's a pic, I noticed that on my paramaters tab that I don't have shadow?!  I have been accessing the light intensity under a different tab lights & cameras here I see the listing of shadow however this one is ghosted.? Again thank you for your time & help!

update I found shadow! lol

 

 

posjon

Ok new Render in 3Delight! a big improvement on the lighting from Iray. :)

lucasdestoop

with another caracter

Kismet2012

posjon said:

Ok new Render in 3Delight! a big improvement on the lighting from Iray. :)

Changing render engines makes a huge difference.  Using the wrong one is something I have done on more than one ocassion.  Then I hit render and wonder why it doesn't look right.  Sometimes I figure out immediately it is the wrong render engine and sometimes it takes a while.

Kismet2012

lucasdestoop said:

with another caracter

Hi Lucas

 

Your kneeling firgure needs to be in contact with the floor.  Right now she is floating about it.  The heel of your right foot might be in contact.  If that is the case you just need to adjust the bend in the foot and possible either the twist or side-side to get it flat on the floor.  Her left knee can be lowered by manipulating the bend in her thigh then working your way down to her left foot as needed.

 

It is completely up to you but I would flatten the feet of the figure in the back.  Her foot position would be appropriate if she is wearing heels but with flat boots it looks a little uncomfortable.

 

Before you make any changes are you keeping this background?  If you are changing the scene they are in then wait to make any adjustments to match the environment.

lucasdestoop

Kismet2012 said:

lucasdestoop said:

with another caracter

Hi Lucas

 

Your kneeling firgure needs to be in contact with the floor.  Right now she is floating about it.  The heel of your right foot might be in contact.  If that is the case you just need to adjust the bend in the foot and possible either the twist or side-side to get it flat on the floor.  Her left knee can be lowered by manipulating the bend in her thigh then working your way down to her left foot as needed.

 

It is completely up to you but I would flatten the feet of the figure in the back.  Her foot position would be appropriate if she is wearing heels but with flat boots it looks a little uncomfortable.

 

Before you make any changes are you keeping this background?  If you are changing the scene they are in then wait to make any adjustments to match the environment.

Hello Kismet

I was thinking to ad a texture to the background, with some more props. A bit of green maybe ? I changed the foot pose and the entire thing while I was busy :). Also I going to try IES lights. But this will me more or less it apart from the textures. Thx for the help

posjon

Kismet2012 said:

posjon said:

Ok new Render in 3Delight! a big improvement on the lighting from Iray. :)

Changing render engines makes a huge difference.  Using the wrong one is something I have done on more than one ocassion.  Then I hit render and wonder why it doesn't look right.  Sometimes I figure out immediately it is the wrong render engine and sometimes it takes a while.

Kismet2012  as always your advice has got me looking in the right area! I do appreciate it :) So far all of my previous renders were with Iray which seemed well to me for, I guess day time lighting. In short could you give a break down on the differences from one render engine to another? is there a best or is it best to use multiple pending the scene?

 

h_habash

lucasdestoop said:

Kismet2012 said:

lucasdestoop said:

with another caracter

Hi Lucas

 

Your kneeling firgure needs to be in contact with the floor.  Right now she is floating about it.  The heel of your right foot might be in contact.  If that is the case you just need to adjust the bend in the foot and possible either the twist or side-side to get it flat on the floor.  Her left knee can be lowered by manipulating the bend in her thigh then working your way down to her left foot as needed.

 

It is completely up to you but I would flatten the feet of the figure in the back.  Her foot position would be appropriate if she is wearing heels but with flat boots it looks a little uncomfortable.

 

Before you make any changes are you keeping this background?  If you are changing the scene they are in then wait to make any adjustments to match the environment.

Hello Kismet

I was thinking to ad a texture to the background, with some more props. A bit of green maybe ? I changed the foot pose and the entire thing while I was busy :). Also I going to try IES lights. But this will me more or less it apart from the textures. Thx for the help

Nice work Lucas, check the front lady fingers, I noticed her fingers not grasping the swords properly.

posjon

Well I'm at it again. Here I have two new charachters for the new contest on the left AmberMae & MadDee on the left. So what I am attempting at this point is two things one I am making a play on the lights utilizing the primary colors, red, green, blue. Also on my second model MadDee I have a red mask in the first pic & removed for the second. I'm not sure if I should use or not what do you think? any & all comments are welcome

posjon

posjon said:

Well I'm at it again. Here I have two new charachters for the new contest on the left AmberMae & MadDee on the right. So what I am attempting at this point is two things one I am making a play on the lights utilizing the primary colors, red, green, blue. Also on my second model MadDee I have a red mask in the first pic & removed for the second. I'm not sure if I should use or not what do you think? any & all comments are welcome

 

posjon

Ok so I've overcome one difficulty to encounter another :) Using 3Delight for RenderThe model on the left, her gloves in this view has become, distorted. No idea what is going on here? Also the Model on the right her outfit for some reason I am not getting the shine as I was able to on the first model. Her outfit is set to Lighting Plastic, Glossiness 100%. I have her dress settings identical to the first. I've attempted to relocate the light & this has made no change. As always your input is appreciated :)