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Who can figure out what is wrong with Lanah Hair? (Temp Solution Here)

barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244
edited October 24 in The Commons

dForce Lanah Hair for Genesis 9 comes with lots of character morphs for existing Daz characters, but it won't autofit to ANY non-listed character that I have tried. This makes it basically a dead end product without the ability to autofit to new characters.

  • For example, try to fit Lanah Hair to the new Genesis 9 Base Anime Female. The hair strands embed in the head. Other dForce hair products I have tried from several vendors autofit to Genesis 9 Base Anime Female and other characters just fine. Something is wrong with Lanah Hair.
  • Lanah Hair doesn't follow proportion morphs like Proportion Neck Length or Proportion Torso Length on ANY character, even the supported ones or even the Base G9. Strangely, some wispy strands seem to be in the right place, but the main ones are not.

  I can't figure out what is wrong with Lanah Hair. Can you? I'll submit a ticket, but I don't get responses to technical support tickets anymore, so I'm hoping maybe someone here can figure out how we can fix it ourselves.

Base G9 Proportion Neck Length 200 percent Lanah Hair.png
2000 x 2600 - 4M
Base G9 Proportion Torso Length -200 percent Lanah Hair.png
2000 x 2600 - 4M
Post edited by barbult on

Comments

  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 1,406

    I've got that hair, will try with my characters and the base anime as well as the proportion shaping.

  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 1,406

    works on my mostly close to normal human G9s, but running into the same difficulty with anime and proportion morphs

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    TesseractSpace said:

    works on my mostly close to normal human G9s, but running into the same difficulty with anime and proportion morphs

    Thank you much for taking the time to test and to replicate the problem.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    The old forum bug is sometimes hiding my attached images from the first post. I'll put them here for reference.

    Base G9 Proportion Neck Length 200%

    Base G9 Proportion Torso Length -200%

  • Blando CalrissianBlando Calrissian Posts: 546

    I had the very same problem. I'll crack it open tonight and try fitting it to various figures and generations.

  • Blando CalrissianBlando Calrissian Posts: 546
    edited October 24

    I spent some time playing around with Lanah Hair today. I'm a bit hampered by the fact that I don't have many Gen 9 morphs, figures, or hairs, but I gave it my best shot.

    Part 1: Auto Fit

    I tried fitting Lanah Hair to some of the non-standard Daz figures I own. These include (L to R, below) Akki, Nancy, Fabrice, and Emmy. It didn't seem to matter if I loaded the hair directly onto the character, or if I loaded the base Gen9 and then dialed in the character morph.

    The hair fit well on Akki and Nancy. It fit mostly well on Fabrice, except that the cap didn't scale to the head. I forgot to try adjusting it manually (boo, me). For Emmy there was a gap between scalp hair and dForce hair.

    I suspect these two are caused by Fabrice's head being a little bigger than average, and Emmy's head being smaller.

    Akki AutoFit.PNG
    1448 x 1191 - 971K
    Nancy Auto-Fit.PNG
    1405 x 1212 - 1M
    Fabrice AutoFit.PNG
    1368 x 1208 - 1M
    HID Akki with Emmy head.PNG
    1384 x 1057 - 708K
    Close up HID Emmy Rendered.PNG
    1361 x 1119 - 3M
    Post edited by Blando Calrissian on
  • Blando CalrissianBlando Calrissian Posts: 546

    Part 2: Morphs

    Some unexpected results here with Akki.

    On the left is the standard auto-fit.

    Second up is the head expanded using the 'proportional head size' morph. Here, the scalp and hair both seem to scale appropriately.

    Third, we have the head expanded using SickleYield's 'head size' morph. Here, a common problem appears- the scalp adjusting along with the morph, but the hair remaining in place.

    Fourth is the same problem, experienced here using the 'proportional neck length' morph.

    Akki AutoFit.PNG
    1448 x 1191 - 971K
    Akki Proportion Head Size.PNG
    838 x 931 - 508K
    Akki SY Head Size.PNG
    957 x 937 - 586K
    Akki Proportional Neck Length.PNG
    1141 x 993 - 535K
  • Blando CalrissianBlando Calrissian Posts: 546
    edited October 24

    Part 3: Morphs Again

    By now, I've got the Vandals' "Disproportioned Head" playing on repeat in my own head. Oh well. Let's continue...

    The same thing can be said for Fabrice. Making his head the size of a Dodger Doll using the 'proportional head morph' is okay, but SY's 'head size' and the 'proportional neck morph' cause the same issue we had with Akki.

    It's worth noting that the 'proportional torso' adjust also causes the same issue, with the figure growing taller, the scalp coming along for the ride, and the strands of hair remaining in place.

    Fabrice AutoFit.PNG
    1368 x 1208 - 1M
    Fabrice Proportional head Size.PNG
    1325 x 1048 - 582K
    Fabrice SY Head Size.PNG
    1334 x 1049 - 738K
    Fabrice proportional Neck.PNG
    1081 x 1047 - 585K
    Post edited by Blando Calrissian on
  • Blando CalrissianBlando Calrissian Posts: 546
    edited October 24

    Episode IV: A New Hope Hair

    For the sake of curiosity, I took the Gen 9 Nancy figure and auto-fit the Gen 8 dForce Ingrid Hair to her, using Mattymanx's Gen 9 Clones for All utility.

    Note that these are both AprilYSH products, and they're both 'built' the same way, with a scalp cap and dForce hairs parented to that scalp.

    Not only did the Ingrid hair parent successfully, it also survived the 'neck stretch' test.

    (If I recall, HID's Nancy was inspired by Jessica Alba, so behold, I have turned the Invisible Woman into Mister Fantastic!)

     

    Nancy Auto-Fit.PNG
    1405 x 1212 - 1M
    Nancy Ingrid G8 Hair.PNG
    1399 x 1230 - 4M
    Nancy Ingrid Proportional Neck.PNG
    1303 x 1143 - 1M
    Post edited by Blando Calrissian on
  • Blando CalrissianBlando Calrissian Posts: 546
    edited October 24

    Episode V: The Empire Genesis 8 Figure Strikes Back

    This is a custom character of my own design, entire Genesis 8-based. TBH I didn't mean to leave the character posed when parenting Gen 9 hair to her, but doing so provided some interesting results.

    Again, the parenting was done using Mattymanx's clones product.

    On the left we have the Gen8 character with GN Lora Hair for G9. In the middle is dForce Bob Style Hair for G9. On the right is the Lanah Hair.

    As you can see, the first two hairs fit fairly well, even with the head tilted. Lanah Hair parented the scalp right where it should be, but here the strand hairs are even more chaotic than usual. The maion body of the hair doesn't quite match the tilt or direction of the Gen 8 figure, and the hair 'whisps' are in a third place above the figure.

     

    G8Custom LoraG9.PNG
    864 x 872 - 732K
    G8Custom Bob Hair.PNG
    1112 x 918 - 866K
    G8Custom Lanah Hair.PNG
    738 x 922 - 980K
    Post edited by Blando Calrissian on
  • Blando CalrissianBlando Calrissian Posts: 546

    Episode VI: Return of the Joint-i

    Here, I took three non-fit, non-parented hairs (Bob Style, Ingrid, and Lanah) and lined them up, then turned on Joint Editor for each one in turn.

    It's interesting to see how the third differs from the other two, although I don't know if that makes any difference.

     

    Joints Bob Style.PNG
    597 x 1133 - 148K
    Joints Ingrid.PNG
    632 x 1198 - 180K
    Joints Lanah.PNG
    462 x 1158 - 79K
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244
    edited October 24

    Well, I certainly enjoyed your many episodic adventures here! Thank you for all that extra experimentation. I don't know if the joint differences matter either. I think all we can definitively conclude is that Lanah Hair is some how broken. Multiple people have now verified the undesired behavior. Maybe @crosswind will come along and offer the usual insight to strange things like this.

    Post edited by barbult on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,970

    barbult said:

    Well, I certainly enjoyed your many episodic adventures here! Thank you for all that extra experimentation. I don't know if the joint differences matter either. I think all we can definitively conclude is that Lanah Hair is some how broken. Multiple people have now verified the undesired behavior. Maybe @crosswind will come along and offer the usual insight to strange things like this.

    Unfortunately, I don't have this hair ~~ But you may check the surfaces of the SBH, especially check Hair Generation Mode.

    I only know that if an SBH was generated by Target Surfaces but set as Root Radius, then there'll be more or less a similar issue like what you posted.

  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 1,406
    edited October 24

    I'm gonna doublecheck when I get to my pc, but I recall getting similar issues from the MK Hime hair.

     

    Edit: nope, looks like the proportion morphs work fine with the Hime hair, though it definitely has issues with the Anime head size.

    Post edited by TesseractSpace on
  • AprilYSHAprilYSH Posts: 1,500
    edited November 6

    Hi Barb (and anyone else) feel free to pm me directly if you have an issue with my stuff :) I know the official channel is via the Daz ticket system - and you should still lodge a ticket as other users can confirm the same issue. Let me know the ticket # please so I can attach any discussions/fixes to it.  But anyway, since I'm fortunate enough to be one of the PAs who can interact, I can get the ball rolling sooner.  Please download and apply the attached temporary fix below.  I am not yet sure what the root issue is, nor the proper way to handle it, as I may have built this hair beyond the scope of the current abilities of mixed surface + rigged/conforming sbh.  

    UPDATE Nov 6 2024: please download the update from your account (via dim, connect, or manual download.) Thanks for your patience :)
     

    crosswind said:

    Unfortunately, I don't have this hair ~~ But you may check the surfaces of the SBH, especially check Hair Generation Mode.

    I only know that if an SBH was generated by Target Surfaces but set as Root Radius, then there'll be more or less a similar issue like what you posted.

    Thank you for chiming in. :) Interesting.  Lanah sbh is one object with 8 material surfaces, of which 6 are root radius and 2 are target surface.  It also has custom bones plus intended to conform to head/neck/upper spine transforms.  It seems to not play well with all these combined, at this stage, so I will bring it to Daz attention.  I don't really want to divide the different surfaces into separate geometry as I like to group same objects together - they are logically one thing imo.   My temp fix below pretty much limits the conforming to the neck and spine movements, which (for now) is of less consequence than losing the combo of material settings, imo.  

    UPDATE Nov 6 2024: please download the update from your account (via dim, connect, or manual download.) Thanks for your patience :)

    Post edited by AprilYSH on
  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 1,406

    The fix works for me, thank you very much for making it. The Lanah hair is a lovely classic style and now that it's playing nice, I'll have to see what character I most want to use it with. :)

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    @AprilYSH thank you for joining the discussion. My ticket number is Request #465441. I'll try the temporary fix you posted. Thank you for such quick response. I'll try to remember that we can PM you directly.

    @Crosswind even without owning the product, it sounds like you honed in on an issue that is related to the problem! Thanks for contributing your idea.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    TesseractSpace said:

    The fix works for me, thank you very much for making it. The Lanah hair is a lovely classic style and now that it's playing nice, I'll have to see what character I most want to use it with. :)

    Thanks for confirming the fix. Where did you put the fix files in the library?

  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 1,406

    barbult said:

    TesseractSpace said:

    The fix works for me, thank you very much for making it. The Lanah hair is a lovely classic style and now that it's playing nice, I'll have to see what character I most want to use it with. :)

    Thanks for confirming the fix. Where did you put the fix files in the library?

    I just dropped them in a sub library for DS content that isn't DIM installed. But it worked from there just fine, so I'd say place it where you can find it.

     

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244
    edited October 24

    I gave it a good challenge with a combo of 3DU Adult Toon Female and Bette converted from G8 to G9. I dialed in some proportion Neck Length and Proportion Torso Length. I added the hair clip and played with a few of the strand adjustments. I applied one of the presets to make it shorter. Lanah hair fix passed the test and gets a thumbs up. It also works well with Anime shape now with the temp fix.

    Toon Adult Bette mix proportions Lanah hair.png
    2000 x 1500 - 2M
    Post edited by barbult on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,970

    As AprilYSH said, I also think mixing root radius / target surface may need further tweaking on some properties. In the H.Pose Preset: switching Fit to Mode to Auto Follow, as well as turning off Disable Target Surfaces Transforms seems a good trick.

    I checked other SBHs, more or less they work reversely with generation mode all set as root radius ~~ 

    Anyway, it' good to know these !  Thanks !

  • AprilYSHAprilYSH Posts: 1,500
    edited November 6

    Thanks for confirming the fix TesseractSpace, and Barb - cute render!! :D And Blando Calrissian I hope it works for you too.

    I really do like the hair twisting and bending with the head and neck movements while still laying on the shoulders/chest, not just moving in one block with the head even though Lanah is a shorter and stiffer hairstyle.  This rigging works well with Juneau Hair below with no issues, but that one did not have the multiple generation modes.  This bug is very strange - why should multiple generation modes impact the conforming(Fit to & auto-follow)? 

    Anyway, glad the temporary fix is working for now.  I'll triple check if there is a better solution before submitting an update to Daz.  Will update on the ticket :)

    UPDATE Nov 6 2024: please download the update from your account (via dim, connect, or manual download.) Thanks for your patience :)

    Post edited by AprilYSH on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    It was generous of you to let us have Lanah Hair as a Door Buster.

  • AprilYSHAprilYSH Posts: 1,500
    edited November 6

    I noticed my Jamari Hair has multiple generation modes, custom bones, conforms to head and neck movements, and seems to work fine with the anime shapes and neck scale!  So I think I've found the solution (it seems to be the follower projection code I inadvertently saved in Lanah hair.)  I'll do some more deeper testing and submit the update.  smiley

    UPDATE Nov 6 2024: please download the update from your account (via dim, connect, or manual download.) Thanks for your patience :)

    Post edited by AprilYSH on
  • ElorElor Posts: 1,484
    edited November 6

    An update is available for the Lanah Hair.

    I didn't use it with a character that had a problem, but thank you for the fast fix, @AprilYSH smiley

    Post edited by Elor on
  • AprilYSHAprilYSH Posts: 1,500

    Thanks for the heads up Elor smiley

    Looks like Daz have published the update.  Thanks all for your patience. yes

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244
    Thanks for updating. I'm traveling, but I'll install it when I get home.
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