OT, Computer Issues
richardandtracy
Posts: 5,661
I wonder if any computer afficionado might be able to help narrow my options a little.
My rendering PC has died.
Just before it died I had two unexpected crashes that caused a re-start, and on the third it didn't really restart. The first 2 crashes had a windows failure screen that said something along the lines of 'A program had an unexpected error and the PC needs to close down'. I can't remember the exact wording, but it was similar. After the third crash, it didn't boot at all, and a very low res Gigabyte motherboard program came up, which could not detect any storage devices.
Now, this suggests two possible options. All storage devices have failed simultaneously. There is a 512Gb M.2 drive for the OS only, and 2 3Tb HDD's. I find it hard to believe that all 3 failed simultaneously, especially as they're of two different technologies. The second option is that the motherboard has failed.
Then, on reading around this lunchtime I find that the i5-13600K processor I have has a potential instability problem, and reading about it can trigger a crash with an unknown cause, and occasionally people have not been able to re-start the PC.
So I have 3 possible causes to the failure, drive failure, motherboard failure and CPU instability.
Can I ask for opinions as to which is the most likely?
I will look at all suggested possibilities, and argument will be able to sway me. I am tempted to think it's the motherboard because having 3 storage devices fail simultaneously sounds unlikely to me, but, the CPU instability issue has made me wonder if it's not that.
The PC specs are: Gigabyte Z690-A ATX board, 64Gb DDR4, RTX 3060, CPU i5-13600K, Boot Drive 512Gb M.2 SSD, Storage drive: 2 off 3Tb HDD Mirror RAID together. 650W PSU, DVD RW, network & 1W speakers. Win11 Home OS. That's it. Nothing hugely fancy.
Regards,
Richard
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Comments
Do you have another computer, in which you could try the storage drives?
Do you have another M2 connector on the motherboard?
Reset bios (instructions in the motherboard manual)
I don't actually have another computer I can stick the drives into. I have a tablet, and that's basically it. I suppose I could try to find a USB caddy and power supply. As for the M.2 drive, I could try another slot if I can recognise it.
Regards,
Richard
Richard, I don't think your computer has "died"
Some of the components but not all you have are similar to the computer I have.
What I know, is with the 13th and 14th Intel generation CPUs have some unestabilities, that's Intel fault.
The M.2 SSD is small, at least the capacity should be 2 Tb not the measly 512 Gb
Head to GIGABYTE webpage, from there locate your motherboard model, go to the support page and download the necessary files you need for your computer.
Also head to the Intel webpage and see if there is something to alleviate your problem.
Also, is your computer still under warranty?
Other thing I see in the specs, one, the CPU is slower Core i5 is not powerful as the Core i9
Two, the Power Supply Unit is 650W, you should get a 1,000 W, with this the system can cope much better, as it seems to me is getting under stress.
Windows 11 Home is nothing better, you should have had Windows 11 Pro.
My advice to you, if you can buy a better PSU and get Windows 11 Pro OEM, this way you can have a better alternative.
Hope you may overcome this situation
If not already tried, remove all non-essential circuit cards, peripherals(except keyboard, mouse, display, & RAM), hard drives and drive cables from the motherboard, and test the naked motherboard. Try removing and replacing the CMOS battery for a few minutes to get a complete reset and force the motherboard to re-examine itself. Other simple tasks, remove & reseat RAM sticks, try one RAM stick at a time in alternative sockets. Check all power connections.
But I had to stop and re-read your description " I find that the i5-13600K processor I have has a potential instability problem, and reading about it can trigger a crash with an unknown cause," If true, then it must be a really sensitive problem.
How close to it do you have to be to affect it by simply reading about it? Be careful what you read.
Unplug the battery from the motherboard and put it back on after 10 minutes. This usually solves most problems.
Or you can use a paper clip to test the motherboard and power (there are many tutorials on the Internet)
That thing, where you use a metal object to test a live electrical circuit with 650 watts of power, really sounds like somebody used AI to come up with the answer.
Hi Richardandtracy,
The firm who built my current PC sends out an email to customers on various topics from time to time.
I've cut and pasted the following from the latest communication (which refers to the Intel issues mentioned in this thread and explains how to upgrade the motherboard's BIOS as a solution)
I'm not well-versed in these things but I trust the source 100%. I have yet to do it myself since I have had no such problems.
From the email:
What’s Happening?
Intel’s recent 13th and 14th gen processors have had some instability issues due to voltage spikes, causing all sorts of unexpected hiccups. Trust us, we get how frustrating that can be – especially when you’re on the brink of a gaming win or wrapping up an important project.
The Good News?
Intel’s latest microcode update (0x129) has been rolled out across major motherboard brands. Flashing your BIOS with the latest version can work wonders for both short-term performance and long-term health of your system. So if you're rocking a Gigabyte, ASUS, ASRock, or MSI motherboard, you’ll want to get on this ASAP.
How to Update Your BIOS:
We’ve put together a step-by-step guide below that’ll walk you through flashing your BIOS in a few easy steps. If you’re thinking, “Oh no, not another update,” we promise this one is worth it. Plus, it’s painless. Just follow the instructions, and you’ll be back up and running in no time.
An Easy Guide to Updating Your BIOS
Why Should You Update the BIOS?
Updating your BIOS can bring improvements in performance, fix bugs, and add support for new hardware. In the instance of Intel's latest fix, ensure long term reliability. But it’s important to approach it carefully because if something goes wrong, it can make your system unstable.
What You’ll Need:
Your motherboard model – Instructions below :)
A stable internet connection – To download the BIOS update.
A USB flash drive – Preferably empty and formatted to FAT32.
Access to the latest BIOS for your motherboard – You’ll enter this to apply the update.
Step-by-Step Guide:
1. Find Your Motherboard Model in Windows
- Open the Start Menu
- Click the Start button (Windows logo) or press the Windows key on your keyboard.
- Type "System Information"
- In the search bar, type System Information, and hit Enter.
Open System Information
- In the window that appears, look for System Information and click on it.
- Find the Motherboard Model
- Under System Summary, look for the line that says BaseBoard Manufacturer and BaseBoard Product (this is your motherboard's model).
Check your current BIOS version
- Restart your PC and enter the BIOS by pressing a key like F2, F10, DEL, or ESC (varies by manufacturer) during start-up.
- Once in the BIOS, look for your current BIOS version, and note it down. Compare it with the latest version available on your motherboard’s website.
Download the BIOS update
- Go to your motherboard manufacturer’s website and find the support section for your specific model.
- Download the latest BIOS update file and any included tools or utilities.
Prepare the USB flash drive
- Format the USB drive to FAT32.
- Copy the BIOS update file and any necessary utilities onto the USB.
Enter the BIOS/UEFI
- Restart your PC and enter the BIOS again using the same key as before.
- Look for an option like “EZ Flash,” “Q-Flash,” or “M-Flash” – this is usually found under the “Tools” or “Advanced” tab, depending on the motherboard.
Update the BIOS
- Select the BIOS update utility and choose the file from your USB drive.
- Start the update process. Do not turn off or restart the computer during this step. It could take several minutes.
Reboot and check
- Once the update is complete, your computer will reboot.
- Enter the BIOS again to confirm the new version is installed.
Pat yourself on the back you have successfully updated your BIOS!
Hermit Crab, I will attempt that as one of the first solutions I try. Going to be interesting to do. Can't use my PC for any of it as it simply doesn't start booting up, let alone get into windows. Thanks for the suggestions though.
I think battery removal followed by unplugging everything will be my first attempts, then bios update.
As for the PSU capacity, I have never had it loaded beyond 300W according to The TechPowerUp utility GPU-z (or similar), and when specifying my machine the checking routine recommended that I drop the power capacity to 550W. I kept it at 650W to give a theoretical 200W of headroom having totted everything up.
The computer 1 year warranty expired last December, unfortunately. I have kept a watch on my boot drive capacity (the 512Gb SSD), and at last check (last week) it had 348Gb free, so I think my rigour in keeping all programs etc on the data drive is paying off. I know it's small, but is under half used and my previous PC never got above 400gb on the boot drive after 10 years as my work PC.
The i5-13gen CPU is as grunty as my budget allowed, and single core performance was a fair bit quicker than the marginally more expensive i7-12gen and i9-11gen at the time. And DS is largely either single thread or in GPU. Think I'm happy with that decision even in retrospect. Assuming of course that it's not the CPU that's gone up the creek.
Many thanks for all your suggestions and advice. Much appreciated.
Regards,
Richard.
Thanks for your reply.
There are quite a few You Tube videos on checking out what to do if a PC fails to boot. They can lead you to checking for a failed power supply with a multi-meter or swapping connections to check on/off switch and so on but as we all know there are very real dangers involved with anything that plugs into mains electricity.
As for the cut and paste instructions I copied, I hope they may be of use to you or others. Being cut and paste, they may confuse a little because it isn't clear which parts are headlines (to the next steps) in a step by step guide.
Good luck.
The thing you short is not delivering much power, it's just what connects to the power switch to turn the power on/off and so has a very low voltage/current. Assugmin you get the right pins, of course. There isn't a way to turn a bare ATX PSU on. A fancier solution, whhich need not be frightfully expensive (I was looking myself a year or two back when this system was being weird) is a tester which has a socket like that on the motherboars, as well as sockets for the various peripheral power connectors.
However, since it is booting into BIOS it appears the main power is OK - if therea re doubts about the currentn or stability then one of the testers would probably be required anyway.
Just a few weeks ago, my computer (company's) broke down. I Googled this method and found out that the motherboard was broken. Of course, I didn't hold the paper clip directly with my hands.
Trouble shoot the 3 likliest components accourding to what you actually have extra available to test: If your render constantly you could conceivably break a metal wired circuit via repeated heating and cooling but with modern hardware that is so improbabnly if you don't overclock. I have managed to break 15 year old laptops, but nothing else newer, via rendering too many DAZ Studio scenes over the course of a year or two never shutting down and then cutting power for a couple of days and letting it cool to room temperature. When I tried to boot, a circuit in the motherboard cracked.
So check:
0) Use your USB Windows install flash drive to try and boot your PC first. Does it boot and let you setup an upgrade/clean install process? You don't have to go through with it you are just testing what a clean Windows and PC Bios/UEFI are detecting with regards to hardware. Go to the recovery command line window and see which of your SSDs are present. The drive letters are likely different.
a) RAM sticks, one at a time
b) CPU
c) GPU
d) Motherboard
I doubt it's any of your SSDs.
I recently was given damaged RAM and it's an easy test: just plugin external storage on different USB ports and copy many hundreds of gigabytes or terabytes of your DAZ products from one SSD to the other. As the data gets copied from the PCIE bus from the SSD into RAM then back out onto the PCIE bus onto another SSD storage your Windows 11 OS will almost certainly panic/blue screen on you if RAM is bad, though for seemingly different reasons, it's not consistent, because the RAM is not consistent.
Firstly, best wishes for getting through what is obviously a difficult time.
Secondly, your hardware choices are fine and the reasoning behind them sound.
As to the PC issue, the motherboard is the most likely to give problems out of the components that you've indicated. I'd grab the manual and see if you can get a fault code, it could be via a two figure digital display on the board, leds on the board or maybe a series of beeps if you have a speaker connected but that's uncommon now.
Failing that, you're down to parts swapping or minimising. You can boot with one stick of ram, use the onboard graphics rather than the 3060, disconnect the raid array from the board and just use the m2. Use another m2 slot or a USB adaptor.
If you suspect the CPU it's worth reaching out to the system builder. It's generally 13900/14900 variants that have been failing but Intel have extended the warranty on most of the parts and pushed the responsibility back onto the system builders.
I'm guessing you're in the UK, if you hit a roadblock and you're in travelling distance of the Black Country I've got a similar system that we could swap parts between.
Hi,
It sounds like whatever caused the crash as corrupted the mobo bios.
Press and hold in the start button on the pc. You should hear it start and then stop. Press start again, you should get a post boot with a warning of corrupted bios and a restore is in progress (gigabyte motherboards). See if it then boots.