Is it possible to convert a morph for G8 female into a morph for G8 male?
Hello,
I would like to know if it's possible to use morphs for Genesis 8 female with a Genesis 8 male. I ask it because in some G8 female morph pugin, in found morphs that woulbe useful for my character, but I don't find their equivalent for G8 male.
Thank you in advance for your answer!
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It's not possible with standard functions on G8, as F and M have different vertex and poly count. Technically, the best way is to wrap G8F with G8M by using Faceform Wrap or ZWrap, but they're not cheap.
Practically, if you mean partial head / body morphs, you may go for using some big and good morph packages in which there're hundreds of morphs for both F / M, like: 200 Plus, Shape Shift, Rarestone's Face Morphs Collection, HSTW Head / Body Morphs Resources... Just forget about any 'conversion', it's not necessary based on the principle of cost-effectiveness...
Or, directly go for using G9 in which there's no such a 'limitation'.
Thank you very much!
Yeah, I am interesting by the Rarestone's Face Morphs Collection, but if you look at the avialable images, you can see for example the face triangle of the G8 Female seems to point to the bottom, but the face triangular of the G8 male seems to point to the top, so, these morphs don't seems equivalent. As the same way, the face oval seems more angulous for the G8 male than for the G8 female.
Or maybe there are other items for the Rarestone's Face Morphs Collection ? I only found these ones :
https://www.daz3d.com/rarestone-s-face-morphs-collection-for-genesis-8-male
https://www.daz3d.com/rarestone-s-face-morphs-collection-for-genesis-8-female
Do you know if there are morphs that make a G8 male face to look like a female? I have the impression that the male morphs are all studied to make a male face more angulous, but in the real life, a male can have an androgynous face or even look like a female...
As the same way, I have the impression that female morphs make the female face more thin and sweet, but in the real ,life, a femal can look like a male...
As far as possible, I would prefer use G8 for my main characters because they have wings, and all the wings I found are for G8...
Thank you in advance for your answer!
If it's about some particular morph, one could export both base models into Blender, use the Blender's "wrap" function or manipulate the mesh manually.
A few years back, I copied the shape of Millennium Gorilla to G3M by moving the vertices of G3M head manually to match the shape of the Gorilla.
Thank you very much! It looks very usefull!
I am a biginner with Blender too... Could you tell me where I can find the wrap function, please?
Thank you in advance!
Modifiers -> Shrinkwrap.
Haven't used it myself, but I have seen it mentioned in similar context
Ah, ok, I will try, thank you very much! By the way, do you think it would also work to "convert" a makeHuman character into a G8 character?
No harm in trying
Rarestone, the author of these packages, has a Master's degree in Art and most of his products used to be the top sellers in Daz store before he left in here. So if you learn and understand human anatomy and realistic sculpting, you'll know why. So pls don't hesitate to use his products.
If you experiment a lot with the morphs in those products, and know how to well blend them together to shape your figure, plus some sculpting skills, you'll be a master.
No doubt that's pretty natural. As human beings, males and females always have diversified head and face shapes. You just go for well using what you have on hand, your skillset and your aesthetic to make what you like, at least at this stage. Well, if for selling purpose, sometimes you have to satisfy the aesthetics and requirements of your customers... but that'll be another story.
For transgender, take a look at this - https://www.daz3d.com/transgender-shapes-for-genesis-8... if you have interests.
No problem. That'll be also great!
As for Shrinkwrap in Blender, you may feel free to learn and try. No harm indeed. Just a reminder, if you wrap a banana, a bust, monkey Susanne or sth., more or less you can get what you want. For wrapping a full body Genesis figure from Daz and then send back for creating a morph, that'll be a different thing. The resolution of floating mesh has to be high enough otherwise the wrapping will be in vain, but in that way you're not able to import it back to DS, let alone various artifacts you may encounter, etc. (G8's geometry is still unique to a certain extent...)
I'm also a Blender user, but just imagine a modifier from a free software comparing to a pro. software with the price from 100 USD ( ZWrap plugin for ZB ) to 1500 USD (Node-based, flow wrapping for Expressions, etc. nearly all-mighty ).
Yes it is! I'll refer you over to this thread wherein lies the instructions :-) Click Here
Ah ha, I forgot there's an option of using G8M's clone.... That's great!
But G8.xM has different polycount and vertex position, partial morph will be weird on it, especially PHM. Personally I still suggest use separate morph packages.
Thank you very much for your answers!
Do you meam, because the vertex groups of G8 won't be to their right place after the shrikwrap, or are there other reasons that make impossible to import back to DS?
I saw that after the shrikwrap, there was some incoherences, because vertice from the jaw was used to wrap the neck, etc... But I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to wrap "per piece". I mean, if I could extract the jaw par of the MH character as a new object, and use the shrinkwrap modifier only to the jaw vertex group of the G8, and then, do the same thing with forehead, ear, nose, etc... wouldn't it be possible to recreate the MH head and to create a new morph to use it into DS?
By the way, I am surprise I don't find a lot of vertex groups on the G8 character: I hoped there would be a group the the ear, a group for the forehead, for the cranium, etc, but they seems to be gathered in only one head group. I am surprise because to create new morph, I thought it would be nessessary to have a lot of different groups to know to which group apply the morph... Are there other groups available somewhere else with the G8 character in Blender?
Thank you in advance for your answer!
I meant vertex positions rather than vertex groups. As long as you use Genesis figure with base resolution as the floating mesh, you can import back to DS but only the vertex positions cann not make you satisfied.
That depends. If the mesh resolution of MH figure you use is higher than Genesis figure, that's it. "per piece", let's say just wrap the head, nope, Shrinkwrap has no such a function. Faceform Wrap has and can do it pretty well 'cause it can 'split' mesh into subsets before wrapping then merge subsets after wrapping.
There're already around 60 vertex groups ( aka Face Groups in DS) on G8 . If you import obj into Blender with vertex groups, you'll see them. For sculpting purpose, sometimes you may need them, with Masking for instance. But for the partial vertex groups as you mentioned, I don't think you really need them though you can create them.
Hi, thank you very much for your answer!
Ah yes, indeed, I can see them, I don't know why I didn't find them the last time...
Well, I tried to use the shrinkwrap modifier to the head vertex group only, and I could obtain just one artifact, on the eyes:
I would like to try to modify the head group "composition" to see if I couldn't fix it if I remove some vertex close to the eyes from this group. But I would prefer not modify the oroginal head group, because I could need it for something else, so I selected all the vertices in this group, I created a new group I called "Headv2", and I tried to use the shrinkwrap to this new group. It should contain exactly the same vertices as the "head" group, since I created it from it, but in fact, when I use the shrinkwrap modifier, I don't obtain the same thing by using the "head" group and the "Headv2" group.
Here is what I obtain with the "head" group:
And here is what I obtain with the "Headv2" group:
It's quite different; especially on the ears and eyes, there is a big problem...
I used these settings for the shrinkwrap modifier:
Do you know why I obtain these differences whereas I just "copy" the "head" group to create the "Headv2" group? I don't understand if it's a Blender issue or DS issue (I am using the DD Keita for Yuzuru 8 character (https://www.daz3d.com/dd-keita-for-yuzuru-8) and I imported him by the Daz to Blender Bridge, after some modificatins in Daz so as he becomes as close as possible to my MH character).
Thank you in advance for your help!
I have to say, as above shown, both of the wrap results are failure... I still suggest you give up Shrinkwrap for such a purpose. Another case for your ref., there's a well-known author - Shinteo, who's proficient in converting XNALara game characters to Daz Genesis figures. He's a veteran in Blender but he only uses R3DS Wrap. If shrinkwarp can really get the job done, he doesn't have to use Wrap at all. His channel on youtube - : https://www.youtube.com/@Shinteo5/videos ; I'm also a Wrap user, I know which is a right tool as well... no need to waste your time with that modifier.
Thank you very much!
Ok, it's too bad, it seemed to have a good potential...
But I am still curius to understand what happened... Do you have an idea of why the two vertex groups are not given the same result although they contained the same vertices without any change? Is there something special in the defaulf vertex groups of Daz that would be not keeped when in created the "Headv2" group?
Thank you iin advance for your answer!
I don't know why... at least in your case unless I test it with your model, but I know the result from shrinkwrap is not really stable from time to time.
Hmm... It looks strange, when I came back to the "head" group, I obtained the same result as the first time, and I when I retried again with the "Headv2" group, I obtained again the same result as previously, it really seems to depend on the group...
I am not an expert about Blender vertex groups, so I wonder, is there a way to oblige vertex groups to reat differently to the shrinkwrap modifier? Like a weight map or something that wouldn't be conserved when I create a new group?
I'll check later...as I always use Wrap... but it's almost the common issue when using some of the standard modifiers in Blender, e.g. when you use Boolean, there will be more or less some artifacts that you have to manually clean the mesh.
And for wrapping, generically, two key success factors to bring you the best result: keep the floating geometry as close / aligned as much to the target mesh; equal or higher resoluton level on the floating geometry.
Ok, thank you very much!
Yes, it what I tried to do, I first used the G8 morph to make the G8 character as close as possible to the MH one. I think I will try again after make eyes to be closer: I didn't modified them before to import the G8 character into Blender, and they a quite longer than the MH character's eyes. Who knows, may be it could improve it?
Well, if it doesn't work, I guess I will have to give up the Blender shrikwrap...
Thank you very much for your help, anyway!
Hello,
I made more tests, and in fact, when I remove some vertices from the "head" group (those close to the eyes, where there is the artifact), this artifact completly disapears. So, I wonder if it could be a problem later to have removed this vertices from the "head" group.
When I will convert the modified G8 into an obj format so as to create an new DS morph, will DS consider that only the vertex positions have been modified, or will it "memorize" that the "head" group composition has been modified too?
For example, if, after creating this new morph, I use the DazToBlender Bridge again to import into Blender the G8 with the new morph I created, do the vertices I remove from the "head" group will be "come back" as vertices of the "head" group, or will they still be removed from this group?
And if they are still removed from this group, could it create some issue later when I would want to modify my character or apply poses, animation, etc... ?
Thank you in advance for your answer!