Blender 3.4 Import/Export OBJ settings

marble

I have been happily using Blender for years to create morphs for clothing, etc. I have saved a list of settings for both DAZ and Blender Import/Export OBJ files. However, Blender 3.4 seems to have changed all that and now the parameters don't match my saved list. I just tried a new morph on a dress and, although the morph imported back from Blenderusing Morph Loader Pro without error, it did not work. All that happens is that the dress either shrinks or grows in total size as I dial in the morph.

Please, can someone walk me through the new settings? Or does anyone have a working set of parameters?

lilweep

sounds like you just have it at different scale in blender.  In my experience, if you export from daz at 100% and then edit in blender without changing scale, it will go back into Daz at correct scale.

You pobably just need to rescale your mesh by some order of magnitude before doing morph loader.

(In the blenders legacy obj importer and exporter, you had to preserve vertex order (that was the crucial thing to remember), but I think you can forget about that in the new versions of blender.)

 

marble

lilweep said:

sounds like you just have it at different scale in blender.  In my experience, if you export from daz at 100% and then edit in blender without changing scale, it will go back into Daz at correct scale.

You pobably just need to rescale your mesh by some order of magnitude before doing morph loader.

(In the blenders legacy obj importer and exporter, you had to preserve vertex order (that was the crucial thing to remember), but I think you can forget about that in the new versions of blender.)

 

Yes, that was my first thought too so I played with the export/import scales but it doesn't apply the morph and I can't get it to scale right either. Maybe I'm changing the wrong things. I've also tried to make sure Vertex Groups is selected in Blender (I saw a YouTube video saying this is important but that was not for DAZ to Blender).

I think I will go back to the Legacy OBJ import/export in Blender 3.4 rather than the new "improved" version - at least until there is some clarification.

lilweep

marble said:

lilweep said:

sounds like you just have it at different scale in blender.  In my experience, if you export from daz at 100% and then edit in blender without changing scale, it will go back into Daz at correct scale.

You pobably just need to rescale your mesh by some order of magnitude before doing morph loader.

(In the blenders legacy obj importer and exporter, you had to preserve vertex order (that was the crucial thing to remember), but I think you can forget about that in the new versions of blender.)

 

Yes, that was my first thought too so I played with the export/import scales but it doesn't apply the morph and I can't get it to scale right either. Maybe I'm changing the wrong things. I've also tried to make sure Vertex Groups is selected in Blender (I saw a YouTube video saying this is important but that was not for DAZ to Blender).

I think I will go back to the Legacy OBJ import/export in Blender 3.4 rather than the new "improved" version - at least until there is some clarification.

Vertex Order when importing into Blender was important in the legacy Blender (pre 3.2 days).  There is a button on import to click Keep Vertex Groups (but that's not the same as Vert Order).  It seems like the new blender obj import and export has the default setting to maintain vert order, so we dont have to worry about constantly clicking that 'Keep Vert Order' button.

 

Anyway, using the new Blender obj importer (from 3.2 onwards) you can still just export from Daz at default 100% scale, import to Blender using default settings (i.e., scale 1.0), export from Blender using default settings (scale 1.0), then bring back to Daz using default 100% import scale and it will be the right size.  You can test this as I dont know about Blender 3.4, as I only have 3.3 installed, and it the scale still works properly. 

It would be interesting to know what scale you are exporting from Daz at, importing to Blender at, and exporting from Blender at? If you're not rescaling again within Blender itself, then you can just work out what scale adjustment you need to make from those values.

Side note: Make sure you expand the 'Show Individual Settings' for morph loader pro to see if youre not applying some weird rescale on Moprh Loader Pro.

marble

lilweep said:

Vertex Order when importing into Blender was important in the legacy Blender (pre 3.2 days).  There is a button on import to click Keep Vertex Groups (but that's not the same as Vert Order).  It seems like the new blender obj import and export has the default setting to maintain vert order, so we dont have to worry about constantly clicking that 'Keep Vert Order' button.

 

Anyway, using the new Blender obj importer (from 3.2 onwards) you can still just export from Daz at default 100% scale, import to Blender using default settings (i.e., scale 1.0), export from Blender using default settings (scale 1.0), then bring back to Daz using default 100% import scale and it will be the right size.  You can test this as I dont know about Blender 3.4, as I only have 3.3 installed, and it the scale still works properly. 

It would be interesting to know what scale you are exporting from Daz at, importing to Blender at, and exporting from Blender at? If you're not rescaling again within Blender itself, then you can just work out what scale adjustment you need to make from those values.

Side note: Make sure you expand the 'Show Individual Settings' for morph loader pro to see if youre not applying some weird rescale on Moprh Loader Pro.

 I'l try to attach screen shots of my (pre-3.2 AKA "Legacy") settings which work for me (but not with the new OBJ Blender import/export). I also check "Apply Modifiers" when I create the morphs using Shape Keys.

Otherwise, yes, I always look at the full settings for Morph Loader Pro as I am in the habit of setting Reverse Deformations to "Yes" for evey import.

 

felis

The attached images are what is working.

But what settings do you use that is not working?

marble

felis said:

The attached images are what is working.

But what settings do you use that is not working?

 

Well, I left the DAZ side the same and the new Blender OBJ import at default other than trying different scaling. As I said above, I also tried it with Vertex Group checked and un-checked. I'm assuming that nobody has it working yet otherwise I would have hoped someone would post their settings as I asked in my OP.

lilweep

I did say leaving everything default scale (100% or 1.0 scale) works as tested with 3.3.

 

Given that this also worked with legacy blender importer exporter, I'm assuming rescaling on import export should work the same too.

felis

I am using the new blender obj im/exporter, and that is working fine.

In and out of blender I use scale 1, so it is consistent.

Out of DS I export at 1% like @Marble, but my import is 10000%, so locally DS is also consistent (so if I export and reimport the same obj, it will be unchanged).

marble

felis said:

I am using the new blender obj im/exporter, and that is working fine.

In and out of blender I use scale 1, so it is consistent.

Out of DS I export at 1% like @Marble, but my import is 10000%, so locally DS is also consistent (so if I export and reimport the same obj, it will be unchanged).

So your Blender export scale is 10,000% ?? Wow... I didn't expect that. I'll try that later but what I don't get is the fact Morph Loader Pro imports without error but instead of the morph being applied, all that happens is the scale is changed by the morph slider. I don't see any sign that the actual morph shape is being applied as well.

lilweep

marble said:

felis said:

I am using the new blender obj im/exporter, and that is working fine.

In and out of blender I use scale 1, so it is consistent.

Out of DS I export at 1% like @Marble, but my import is 10000%, so locally DS is also consistent (so if I export and reimport the same obj, it will be unchanged).

So your Blender export scale is 10,000% ?? Wow... I didn't expect that. I'll try that later but what I don't get is the fact Morph Loader Pro imports without error but instead of the morph being applied, all that happens is the scale is changed by the morph slider. I don't see any sign that the actual morph shape is being applied as well.

 is that surprising? if you export from daz at 1% then at some point you need to multiply by 100 to get it back to 100% in daz studio.

so you would need to multiply the default 100% by 100 i.e., 10000% to get back into daz at correct scale.  btw blender uses decimal notation (so 1.0 is 100%) so to export at 10000% would be 100.0 scale in decimal notation.

anyway, hope you realise you dont have to bring your exported obj into daz via morph loader pro, you can just visualise what it looks like by bringing it into daz as an obj prop and see if your morph is applied and what its scale is.

we have to take your word for whats happening since no screenshot or description of settings were provided.

marble

lilweep said:

marble said:

felis said:

I am using the new blender obj im/exporter, and that is working fine.

In and out of blender I use scale 1, so it is consistent.

Out of DS I export at 1% like @Marble, but my import is 10000%, so locally DS is also consistent (so if I export and reimport the same obj, it will be unchanged).

So your Blender export scale is 10,000% ?? Wow... I didn't expect that. I'll try that later but what I don't get is the fact Morph Loader Pro imports without error but instead of the morph being applied, all that happens is the scale is changed by the morph slider. I don't see any sign that the actual morph shape is being applied as well.

 is that surprising? if you export from daz at 1% then at some point you need to multiply by 100 to get it back to 100% in daz studio.

so you would need to multiply the default 100% by 100 i.e., 10000% to get back into daz at correct scale.  btw blender uses decimal notation (so 1.0 is 100%) so to export at 10000% would be 100.0 scale in decimal notation.

anyway, hope you realise you dont have to bring your exported obj into daz via morph loader pro, you can just visualise what it looks like by bringing it into daz as an obj prop and see if your morph is applied and what its scale is.

we have to take your word for whats happening since no screenshot or description of settings were provided.

 

Is it a problem taking my word? Why would I lie? What a strange comment.

As for the maths - I'm just hopeless. Even as you explain it I have trouble following. So 10000% is really 100? Right, ok.

Thankfully Blender still has the so-called "Legacy" OBJ import/export so I'm not really hampered. I was just interested to know if anyone had managed to use the new one.

felis

@Marble try to export an object out of DS and then import it again, right away.

If you export at 1% you have to import it at 10000% if you want to have the same size imported as when exported.

And be aware that the object import settings are different from the morph loader import settings.

marble

felis said:

@Marble try to export an object out of DS and then import it again, right away.

If you export at 1% you have to import it at 10000% if you want to have the same size imported as when exported.

And be aware that the object import settings are different from the morph loader import settings.

 

I just don't get the logic in any of that, I'm sorry for being so thick on this. If I export an OBJ from DS and then import it again without going via Blender, why should the scale change? Or do you mean to include Blender in the process but just not create a morph? If so, is the 10000% a DAZ Import setting or a Blender Export setting? If it is DAZ, then what is Blender export set to? 100? Which translates to 10,000% in DAZ Studio?

lilweep

if you shrink something when it leaves daz, which is what you do when you export at 1% (youre shrinking it to one 100th of its original size), then at some point (be that in blender or in daz) you are going to need to unshrink it by 100x to get back to original size.

felis

In your attachments you showed that you exported out of DS at 1% (similar to what I do).

If you then want to import the same object you have just exported bck into DS (no blender involved) then you must set the import to 10000% if th object shall be the same size as when it was imported.

If you have an object of 1 m, and export it at 1% it will be 0.01 m exported. So when you import it you have to scale it to 10000% in order to get it back to 1m.

The scenarie of export and reimport, could be if you wanted to make a morph based on a dForce simulation.

lilweep

remember, daz interprets size units as centimetres, whereas blender thinks size units are in metres.

if you dont adjust scale on export (i.e., if you use default settings), then your 200cm daz figure is going to turn into a 200m giant in blender.  but if you export the 200m giant from blender, it will still be written as 200 size units and therefore will be read as 200cm when bringing back to daz.  this is why you dont need to adjust scale on export and import from daz and blender when making morphs. so you can just use default settings.

if however you want to bring your daz figure into blender and have it respect blender scale, then that is when you have to divide by 100 (to convert cm to m). 200cm become 2m.  but then if you save out your character from blender without reconverting m to cm, 2m will be written as 2 size units, which daz would interpret as only 2cm so your daz figure will be an ant.

Richard Haseltine

You don't need to calculate the scales - just use 1 in Blender, save a preset (if you aren't using an existing one) in the OBJ Export dialogue in DS, and make sure you use the same preset on import or morph loading - DS will then handle all the needed adjustments for you.

marble

Richard Haseltine said:

You don't need to calculate the scales - just use 1 in Blender, save a preset (if you aren't using an existing one) in the OBJ Export dialogue in DS, and make sure you use the same preset on import or morph loading - DS will then handle all the needed adjustments for you.

There you go - I thought that was what I was doing. I do set my DAZ export scale to 1 [EDIT - sorry I see you said in Blender] as you can see in the screen shots above. It works for the Blender Legacy OBJ import/exporter but not for the new one. As for import back to DS, I do that using Morph Loader Pro and I don't touch anything to do with scale (leave it at 100%). However, as you can also see from my screen shots, in the Blender Legacy export I have the scale set to 100 (not sure whether that is default or not as I am not at my PC right now). So are you saying this should work for the new Blender import/export?

marble

Jeez - now it works!

I really don't know what I changed but I decided to take screen shots to show my settings (see attached) and in doing so I created a test morph and it just worked fine with the new OBJ importer/Exporter.

I must have changed something before but I went over the settings and I have no idea what it was. Anyhow, here are my screen shots.

Ah, wouldn't you know it - the crappy forum image attach is not working again. I'll try later.

lilweep

Richard Haseltine said:

You don't need to calculate the scales - just use 1 in Blender, save a preset (if you aren't using an existing one) in the OBJ Export dialogue in DS, and make sure you use the same preset on import or morph loading - DS will then handle all the needed adjustments for you.

If you arent using an existing preset, i think you will have to save the Export preset and then also have saved a corresponding Import preset for it separately. 

But thats only if you are using custom preset.  I guess there are already so many existing default presets where 1 unit = 1m (e.g., the 3DSMax one), so no need to make a custom one for Blender anyway

lilweep

marble said:

Jeez - now it works!

I really don't know what I changed but I decided to take screen shots to show my settings (see attached) and in doing so I created a test morph and it just worked fine with the new OBJ importer/Exporter.

I must have changed something before but I went over the settings and I have no idea what it was. Anyhow, here are my screen shots.

Ah, wouldn't you know it - the crappy forum image attach is not working again. I'll try later.

while forum not working, you can just upload them to your gallery as a draft gallery (dont publish) and then past the image links here or embed the images. 

Richard Haseltine

lilweep said:

Richard Haseltine said:

You don't need to calculate the scales - just use 1 in Blender, save a preset (if you aren't using an existing one) in the OBJ Export dialogue in DS, and make sure you use the same preset on import or morph loading - DS will then handle all the needed adjustments for you.

If you arent using an existing preset, i think you will have to save the Export preset and then also have saved a corresponding Import preset for it separately. 

But thats only if you are using custom preset.  I guess there are already so many existing default presets where 1 unit = 1m (e.g., the 3DSMax one), so no need to make a custom one for Blender anyway

No, you save the preset from either the export or an import and DS will then invert it correctly to go in the other direction.

lilweep

Richard Haseltine said:

lilweep said:

Richard Haseltine said:

You don't need to calculate the scales - just use 1 in Blender, save a preset (if you aren't using an existing one) in the OBJ Export dialogue in DS, and make sure you use the same preset on import or morph loading - DS will then handle all the needed adjustments for you.

If you arent using an existing preset, i think you will have to save the Export preset and then also have saved a corresponding Import preset for it separately. 

But thats only if you are using custom preset.  I guess there are already so many existing default presets where 1 unit = 1m (e.g., the 3DSMax one), so no need to make a custom one for Blender anyway

No, you save the preset from either the export or an import and DS will then invert it correctly to go in the other direction.

oh i have several old and new export presets saved but they dont show up for me in import dialogue box as options

marble

lilweep said:

marble said:

Jeez - now it works!

I really don't know what I changed but I decided to take screen shots to show my settings (see attached) and in doing so I created a test morph and it just worked fine with the new OBJ importer/Exporter.

I must have changed something before but I went over the settings and I have no idea what it was. Anyhow, here are my screen shots.

Ah, wouldn't you know it - the crappy forum image attach is not working again. I'll try later.

while forum not working, you can just upload them to your gallery as a draft gallery (dont publish) and then past the image links here or embed the images. 

 

I've never used the Gallery so I'll need to check whether I actually have access. I tried to do as you suggest only using Google Drive but can't get the image links to work (I did check permissions, etc.). The file attachment feature of this forum has been on and off for several days now and I, for one, will be happy when they finally abandon this awful forum software in favour of something that works.

Yes, the Gallery links do work, thanks.

lilweep

^ that works provided you import to daz at 100%

marble

lilweep said:

^ that works provided you import to daz at 100%

Yes, I checked Morph Loader and it is 100% (although that has nothing to do with my mathematical skills - pure trial and error I think).