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Is anyone using the Daz Beta on 'Linux?
I'm seeing much better usage of the sliders on the BETA - and only the Beta - just checked 4.10.
I can now move items around the environment with the sliders sort of like a Jan Svankmajer animation (this is probably old new to someone whose used the Windows version - but it's novel for me).
The solution, whihc all the big players are investing heavily, is to use the new Vulkan instead of OpenGL, both of which are by the same standards body. Vullkan makes the code hardware and operating system independant, which means finallly, "one source code tree to rule them all, and in the graphics bind them..." :-)
Yes, the sliders are working in 4.11 beta.
Huzzzza!
Was chatting to a Daz user on Debian Stable (and still therfore on an older Wine version) who isn't seeing the slider improvement with the Daz Beta though.
Good grief Debian Stable still only on wine 1.8...
I have managed to get dForce OpenCL cloth simulator, which required OpenCL 1.2 support working on Linux with 1 hours of programing to enable OpenCL 2.1 pass through in wine-staging 4.1. The cloth simulation is kinda work, but with weird glitch as in screenshot attached. I don't know if that related to AMD's proprietary OpenCL Linux driver or not, and I don't want to boot to Windows 10 to verify it either :P
The patch for wine-staging 4.1 can be found here https://github.com/kytulendu/wine-opencl
It will expose Linux side OpenCL 2.1 to Windows program runing on wine, and also all of extensions list that Linux side OpenCL devices support (yes, including the un-implemented cl_khr_gl_sharing and cl_khr_gl_event extension to wine side)
Please remined that it still missing all functions related to OpenGL and DirectX sharing and no extension functions call support, just like the original passthough. And likely, I will not implement it unless I found a program that I use using it, and there are some pass through functions that I'm not sure if I implement it correctly...
For anyone who use AMD GPU like me (GCN cards), you have to install AMD's binary blobs OpenCL driver in oder to get OpenCL 1.2+ support. I have made an install script for Ubuntu 18.04, which can be found here https://gist.github.com/kytulendu/3351b5d0b4f947e19df36b1ea3c95cbe
Mark the script as executable and run it with "sudo ./install-opencl-amd.sh" The script will download and install AMDGPU-PRO 18.50 OpenGL driver on your system and set extra $LD_LIBRARY_PATH to installed AMDGPU-PRO OpenCL driver.
And besure to read the random script you download first before run it as root, just in case.
Tested on
OS: Kbuntu 18.04
Kernel: x86_64 Linux 4.20.6-042006-generic
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 1700X Eight-Core @ 3.7GHz
GPU: AMD Radeon R9 200 Series (HAWAII, DRM 3.27.0, 4.20.6-042006-generic, LLVM 7.0.0)
RAM: DDR4 16GB @ 2933Mhz
Note: GPU driver is using amdgpu instread of the default radeon driver, using MESA OpenGL library version 18.3.3 from pradoka stable ppa, using self compiled wine-staging 4.1 with some custom patch related to gaming improvement and the OpenCL patch.
Program tested:
- DAZ Studio Pro 4.10.0.123 dForce cloth simulator (Windows 64bit version)
- Blender 2.79b Cycle renderer (Windows 64bit version)
\OwO/
Oh Wow!
Serious Kudos.
Any reason it wouldn't work on an Nvidia? (GTX1080 with Ryzen 7 CPU, 32GB RAM)
GPGPU Iray I can get, but I find running Wine-staging to have an impact on Daz performance on Wine generally (with flakey screen behaviour and slightly more unstable), so I just use Wine regular (4.0-2 currently) but dForce might be worth the wine-staging issues.
In theory it should work on Nvidia cards too, if clinfo able to display Nvidia's OpenCL device on Linux side.
The "Device Version" from clinfo need to be at version 1.2 or greather as required by dForce.
Also, the patch can be apply to wine-4.0 stable source code, as the patch didn't require wine-staging :)
well done @khral.
dear daz linux users, please confirm the below code changes are working.
help to close this winehq bug, add your test results to winehq bugzilla. .
click here to track current status of the winehq opecl 1.2 version bug fix
@khral, if possible tell us how to quickly test this fix.
I assume the process is long. 1. get source code. 2. apply this patch. 3. get install all the *dev dependency 4. compile by make, make install. 5.test patch.
my setup: debian latest, nvidia gpu driver, winehq-staging latest, daz 4.10 64bit.
@desidazer I have make instructions to compile wine with OpenCL patch here https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46470#c4
(Please ignore the derped Comment 3 :P)
You can also use pocl library (http://portablecl.org/) as well, it is an opensource CPU OpenCL library, which work greath with Daz Studio's dForce (without weird glitch like AMDGPU-PRO OpenCL GPU driver).
You can either compile it your self (recommended) or try use the one included in your distro repository (I haven't test this, but it should work), if you use Ubuntu 18.04 you can get it by using this command
again well done @khral.
Yes, I followed your Instructions. I compiled and applied your OpenCL patch [with minor tweaks in steps for my linux distro].
Yes, now my 1. nvidia gpu [ and also 2. pocl CPU ] are showing up as OpenCL device in daz dforce Simulation Settings.
dForce clothing simulation is working now on both nvidia GPU and POCL CPU. will patch test on wine-staging later.
dear daz linux users, go ahead test this patch and share your experience.
Also help to close this winehq bug, add your test results to winehq bugzilla. .
click here to track current status of the winehq opecl 1.2 version bug fix
my setup: debian latest, nvidia gpu driver, winehq-staging latest, daz 4.10 64bit.
Are there any plans for DAZ Studio to natively support Linux, or will it always be the users finding workarounds?
If Daz 3D does not want to Support Linux which is a Bad move, as that Win 7 base left over may all switch to Linux.
We can try shifting to ReactOS, as it is a Open-Source Windows Clone made by the ReactOS team and Microsoft did try to shut them down and failed.
Though given the OS's Alpha state it won't be the best, but I did get Daz3D to Run in ReactOS in version 0.4.4, in a virtual machine, though due to the VM's OpenGL support limit I could not really test it.
I honestly don't know if I'm gonna stick with this hobby. I don't care for Win 10's features, so I'll probably switch to Linux one of these days. I'll just use DS or Poser in Wine, I suppose, but the deciding factor for me will be getting Luxrender (or some other OpenCL renderer) to work. I can't see myself paying Nvidia's prices anymore, not when AMD has a 16Gb Radeon VII for $700. I'm not so concerned about the compute performance as having enough VRAM to load a scene.
But yeah, a native Linux version would be nice.
In my opinion the best option for Linux at this time is to use DAZ Studio 32 bit in wine and export to Blender. Then use Blender to animate and render DAZ assets. And anyway this is probably the best option for Windows 10 too if you ask me.
http://diffeomorphic.blogspot.com/p/daz-importer.html
Given the Parts used to make Daz Studio can be used in multiple platforms, including Linux, it should not be that hard to get a Linux version going. Especially since they have a Mac Version, and Mac and Linux are like OS siblings with a Unix parent.
As I see it this is the problem
1 getting them to realize that there are people who use Linux
2 getting them to understand that Linux hasn't been command line only for at least 20 years
3 getting the "Windows Fan Boys" out of the way
1. Correct, Linux accounts for something like 2-3% of desktop use around the world.
2. I think command line usage depends on what you're doing, correct? Clearly, if you're just browsing or using some of the default software in one of the distros that is more focused on graphical interface, then yeah, you're probably able to use a graphical UI all the time. However, if you get into detailed stuff like installing Wine so you can run DAZ Studio and other Windows apps, and/or you're using one of the distros that still relies a lot on command line, then yeah, you'll need to use the command line. I know in my work with Linux and virtual machines and specialized sofware I definitely need to use the command line a lot. Even with Linux Mint Mate, with is very much graphical-UI based. Another example is with the super-popular Raspberry PI computer which uses another Linux variant called Raspbian. TONS of command line stuff associated with that. So I'm not sure a blanket statement is appropriate.
3. There's a difference between those who have factual, rational input and genuine concerns and those who might be dismissed as "fan boys". I tend to listen to the first category since I might learn something useful.
I agree that sometimes the command line is the best if not the only option for a task I even have to use it in Windows from time to time I was basiclly refering to those who keep on insisting that ALL Linux is command line only and has no GUI of course the majority of those fall into the Windows Fan Boy category I mentioned
I agree 100% with your reasoning on #3 anything else would be illogical and ultimately self defeating
I'm currently running Linux Mint Cinnamon on three systems 9two notebooks and a Ryzen system) and Fedora on an old laptop, Win7 on my HTPC and Win 10 on my Threadripper used for 3d and a notebook for geneology
I also have a Raspberry Pi which is fun to play with and is actually quite remarkable
Also, I think most software companies assume that if they put out a Linux version their customer support issues are going to increase tenfold. I mean just imagine some of the clueless Windows users you've met, now imagine those guys trying to use Linux. And before you can try to troubleshoot DS for them, you have to figure out what distro they're using, what kernel version, hardware, etc.
As for me, I'm running Win7 on my main PC and laptop. I have 2 old desktops that are disassembled right now, but I may try and get one of those up and running Linux. Plus I've got the trusty old Raspberry Pi running LibreELEC as a video player.
Yeah the Current Desktop share has Linux at 2-3%, but when Win7 reaches EoL, what happens to it's current 40+%, Not ALL that 40+% will move to Win10.
From those I've talked to, a number of them are disgusted by *Microsoft's policies and or practices within Win10 and learning things about Linux from my experience with it and a good number of them are willing to trying it out.
To almost all of those looking to get away from Windows, I recommended and or gave them a DVD with ZorinOS on it so they could try it themselves, see that they can still do all the same things as in Windows and without the problems of Win10.
So what happens if most of that 40+% of current Win7 users change to a Linux OS? I think Daz should ask itself this question.
*Some experienced myself and researched others for confirmation.
Hi, GafftheHorse, thanks for compiling this tutorial.
I followed through your tutorial and installed DIM and then DAZ 4.10 64-bit through DIM successfully.
I also have GPU rendering working properly.
I've not yet checked dforce, but I'll go for that too.
But I couldn't get CMS working, I followed your postgresql section closely but it didn't work for me.
sudo apt-get install postgresql postgresql-contrib-9.4
postgresql-contrib-9.4 wasn't available in Linux Mint, so I installed postgresql-contrib 10+190 which was available.
I could setup DAZ Studio Content DB but it didn't get an entry in pgadmin3.
I followed through rest of the steps and but no CMS content was added even after reimporting metadata.
Can you please help me with this?
I'm very weak add terminal and commands because I can't understand their outputs, warnings and all.
Is there a way to do this "Setup DAZ Studio Content DB" step purely through pgadmin3?
And I see you use Content Library too, I know about softlinks, but don't know how I could arrange the DAZ Content Library to enhance productivity.
Can you please share your workflow in detail, like tree structure of your custom DAZ Content Library?
Thanks.
The thing I love about Linux is its users, even though a product isn't officially supported in Linux, users still find innovative ways to work them to near perfection.
Update: My OpenCL patch was included in lastest Wine-Staging, if you using Wine-Staging 4.5 to run DAZ Studio on Linux, the dForce OpenCL cloth simulator will work out of the box if your Linux installation have OpenCL 1.2 support.
Yes, Its working . just checked now. thanx @khral
this is good news for all linux users
Sorry for the delay, the 'daz studio and linux' forum has been so quiet of late that I'd stopped coming to visit, and the daz forum stopped notifying me of new posts...
I am looking into the CMS instructions part of the guide, but I did not devise it, merely pulled the guide together from sources on Deviant Art and this forum. I was expecting/hoping for a little more feedback from the other experts on here, but it's been quiet of late).
Personally I set CMS up entirely from the Commandline with few issues (an old Mainframe guy, I'm more comfortable on the CLi than a GUi for admin tasks).
The CLi commands entered as given (with changes for stated 9.4 references wherever you find them - as postgresql version will have moved on from a year or so ago)
While I try to find time to install pgadmin and research running the setup from that exclusively, try this set of postgresql install / setup instructions. Personally I think it's clearer than the one included in the 0.1 guide. (see attached file) hopefully I caught all the old postgresql version hardcodes.
You might also want to check you are trying to restart postgresql with the right command - given ones on this old instruction set covers System V init and Upstart (old Ubunut one). Most distros have moved to Systemd in the last year. Debian are in the process, Ubuntu have abandoned upstart with Unity, and Mint would have followed.
Content Library.
As to the Content Library organisation I used. You'd want to put together a tree structure layout that makes logical sense to you to help you quickly find resources, not use mine (which I am not 100% sure I'm happy with).
I used softlinks for two reasons
1) To gather like resources into 1 single access point from the various locations all over runtime (content lib wise you can't do much with the Poser/Daz divide). e.g Hair items in Poser runtime.
2) To add some theme categorisation, e.g. Sci Fi, Victorian, Indoors, Outdoors, Furniture, FX, Lighting, Landscapes, Skies
However, by way of illustration.
1) Gather like resources - Hairs in Poser Runtime - some are 'prop' hairs (parent to head) and are in 'Props' folder, some .cr2 files and in 'Character', and .hr2 hairs are in 'Hair' folder (these only affect Poser runtime). Older Poser versions were limited to dealing with certain file types in each folder.
I used softlinks to link all hair folders in other folders into 'Hair' Folder, and linked the 'Materials' mats and 'Pose' mats into a "! Hair materials" folder for single point of access. Also tidied up the sometimes variant PA vanity folders (the ones with items under PA named folder).
* The '!' at the front means it'll appear at the top of the runtime folder (before 'a') good for easy access.
2) In the Daz side of the runtime, I created '!Daz Props' under Props, and gathered links from 'Environments' and 'Props' into themed categories.
Content Lib >
Props >
! Sci Fi Props >
Link to Sci Fi prop #1
Link to Sci Fi prop #2
Also did the same in 'People' with 'Clothes', organising them into genre themes, periods in history etc.
Of course I also did this in the Poser side too.
I don't see a Linux native version on the horizon unless Daz decide to switch their software to a Blender base with a Daz ui on top. They just don't have the manpower for a system with such a small footprint.
The platforms are mostly converging on a mutual standards base anyway, with companies looking to compete in services rather than software.
With Luxrender switching to Luxcorerender base, the Reality plugin has kept up, but the Luxus base still requires the older luxrender.
There's also options to export scenes to blender using mcasuals mcjteleblender scripts for Daz.
Having had issues with no GPU renders for some time due to library issues, I have no problem with CPU renders, the default 1hr 40 Iray time window gives me good enough results, I'm not rendering to a clock.
Also Some great new shader/lighting work being done by Daz users for 3Delight to help users get closer to photoreal on 3Delight should they want that (Wowies Awe Shaders, IBL Master by Parris, among others)
And someone might do a plugin for AMD Prorender at some point (anyone?)
Daz users on Linux have seen some progress since 2016 (when I started 32bit was the only version at all runable). 64bit now working, Iray reliable, CMS working, now OpenCL thanks to @khral. The latest Daz Beta running on a recent Wine version has even knocked the long running scrollbar lag on the head, and I'm seeing much quicker load times, even if Daz is still only reliable using Gen-4 and Genesis figures a lot of the time.
Thanks for replying.
I'll try this new set of instructions.
I've nearly zero experience in working with CLI, so I fail to notice my mistakes, or minor changes necessary for a set of commands to work.
I'm on a Mint system, so systemd it is.
Thanks for sharing the tricks for Content Library management, I'm just starting with DAZ, I was using it just as a base and default morphs and used Blender for custom morphs, materials and rendering.
Now as I have GPU rendering working, I've been testing Iray renders in DAZ.
But I'm also noticing massive load times in DAZ and I see a lot of people experience better load times with the DAZ beta version.
I'll also switch to Wine 4.5 staging for testing dForce, it didn't working previously in 4.4 for me.
DAZ for Linux would be really great but I think it might take years of work for that.
I didn't know about mcasuals mcjteleblender scripts for DAZ, I think they'll come handy for my Blender works.
AMD Prorender looks promising, I've not tried 3Delight, I would love to try that as photorealistic renders is my end goal.
DAZ Linux has come a long way really, and in time it will be nearly equivalent to the non-Wine version, hopefully.
Thanks for the post.
If you are used to Blender, you're way ahead of me, it boggles me every time, I'm still struggling even with the new Blender Beta 2.8
I've had some sucess with a few Blender renders using mcteleblender, but attempts at Cycles were patchy, probably materials need more tweaking for Cycles than for the relatively similar Blender vs. 3Delight.
3Delight is the longer running render engine on Daz, the old default. When I started at the beginning of 2016, the 32bit version was runable on Wine, the 64bit version was less reliable so 3Delight was all I had. Took me several months to get passable renders out, never mind anything close to photorealistic. It's just not as easy as Iray to get that type of result.
3Delight is a biased render engine (like Poser Firefly and Blender render) while Iray is unbiased (like Superfly, Cycles, Luxrender and Prorender).
I've been getting close to Iray in terms of output on 3Delight, but variable results and not there yet (I am on Deviant Art, same handle).
The primary advantage of 3Delight is that there is a standalone renderengine for 'Linux for it - set 'output to rib' and 'collect and localize' and you can render on 'Linux natively (single licence, so one at a time) - it seems to run quicker on Linux than rendering through Wine (3delight included with Daz isn't core-capped, but the cap for standalone is 16 CPU cores, which for most isn't a cap at all).
I like the Iray results too, and have a fair few shaders for it, but I remain not particularly impressed with Nvidia, it's 'Linux drivers or it's interactions with the OSS community. I bought an Nvidia card for a recent build in 2017 (buoyed up by my recent Daz take-up), but I'm not sure advantages like GPU rendering of Iray can balance the poor desktop performance under the Nvidia drivers.
Another advantage the Daz Beta combined with the latest Wine is scene saves - For the longest time I never bothered saving scenes (sub-scenes, yes) but not full scenes. They either took hours and hours to load, but mostly never did. Saving, not delay, but loading was impractical. Other saves (poses for one, and some others) take a little long, but it's not too bad.
CMS and Postgresql:
I've done some initial investigation, pgadmin3 is being phased out in favour or pgadmin4, which quite frankly looks overkill to install for one small postrgresql db like the Daz CMS.
The second postgresql instruction set I posted was written by amy aimei (posted on Deviant Art) and is what I used with a few edits (I am an Archlinux user). The original was posted to the Daz and Linux forum, which was why I used that orginally.
Let me know how you get on...
I have a clean Mint install on a machine. I'm gonna try this.
Yeah, Blender is quite alarming at first, all types of tabs and panels all over the place, but in time, it starts to ease in.
The new interface has addressed some issues, others are still wide open.
I came from Maya, so I use my Maya key-bindings and Maya-like pie menus and dynamic context menu for a while, but now I find at home with Blender.
As of late, I'm trying to replicate Iray materials, shaders and lighting in Blender.
Blender is a great choice for heavy work, but for quick work, relying on DAZ saves a lot of time.
Yes, I checked out your DeviantArt gallery, your 3Delight renders are quite good, you're also quite proficient at lighting, I see.
You also render large scenes with lot of characters but you pose them in a very meaningful way.
You use custom poses or PowerPose or some external software for that?
I find unbiased render engines easier to work with and often times found biased render engines need more learning, but I'll go for 3Delight soon as I have missed that technology completely in the past.
Yes, saving a scene in DAZ felt not worth it at first, load times were like in the 90s, I also saved parts of the scenes to save time.
And Nvidia needs to do a better job at Linux support.
Archlinux user, that's just great, Arch is next on my list, it's bleeding edge and I love that.
I tried the new instructions.
This is what I got.
I've no idea what I've done wrong or how to correct it.
I also don't know how I could exit out of that text to add next commands.
I don't know my ways around the terminal so I'm kinda stuck.
And thank you for helping me out.
It would be really kind of you if you could share a video of that.
Hi khral, thanks for the patch. It works perfectly.
Damnit!!
The citext module provides a case-insensitive character string type, Schema version 1.0 was valid for postgresql < 9.5 (so it's another instance of a 'hardcoded' reference to a particular version of postgresql I missed)
You need to find out what version of postgresql you have installed, and update the schema version for that. I think I had to up it to 1.1 last time I installed, I didn't flag it at the time, as being on Archlinux, I'm generally several versions ahead of release based distros, lot of Daz on Linux users seem to be on Debian stable or Deb based LTS distros releases and were using postgresql < 9.5
I think you'd need to up the schema to 1.4 if you are using Postgresql 10 on the ubuntu 18.04 base, from what I can gather from comments on DA. (however, on Archlinux, I'm on psql 11.2, and citext says 1.3 there, sourced from \dx command, it must have up'ded it during system upgrade - I did have to go in and migrate the psql db at least once due to a version update).
Alternatively, you could try not specifying a specific version.
i.e. Instead of :
Try :
See if that defaults to using the current default schema rather than try to specify something. I've not tried it (I don't want to risk breaking my setup at the momo) but nowhere else have I come across any reference to citext and schema version questions, and the docs don't mark it as a factor.
CLI Tips.
Ctrl-D will usually take you out (if 'quit' or 'exit' don't work) - might have to do it twice. And once you get into psql commands, the ';' signifies an end of command (you could deliver every line in one command up to each ';').
Here is another variant of last posted instructions (much the same, some updates) - done by an Archlinux user (but not me).
Please note, some file paths may be different on your system, might be better to check in advance of entering a command that the path/file exists if one is referenced (it's what I do, and I'm fairly adept at CLi).
Packages noted may be different (Arch does not have a postgresql_contrib package), Debian is bar far the most commonly used base by desktop users, which is why I've kept the instructions mostly on a Deb base.
Also I advise using wine prefixes (wine bottles), not using the default .wine as this user appears. Prefixes allow you to have different wine settings for each program (I have a 32bit, a 64bit (both with Dim also installed) and a 2nd 64bit for a 'sandboxed' Daz install (manual update only for the system side, they all use the same content) plus a few non Daz windows program prefixes.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wine
Let me know how you get on.