Getting on the 9 train, or not

Ghosty12

CHWT said:

Well maybe I have some kind of OCD lol, if it's a take it or leave it situation, I will see it from a positive perspective that it's in fact a cure or a blessing in disguise. It miraculously stopped my impulsive buying behavior lol.

Strangely enough I am slowly coming to that realization as well, not sure how or why but it has. Either way I am in no rush, I have so much stuff right now not sure what to do sometimes.. lol

vrba79

Yeah, currently Genesis 9 is like a new game console that doesn't have any titles I want just yet, but at least now I know it has potential.

beregar

ChangelingChick said:

AllenArt said:

 My females will be covered, but it's the gents that need better nipples IMVHO. 

 Just for you, I'm gonna make a masculin pack just for that :D It'll sell for crap, but I'll do it :D

 

Here or some other site?

takezo_3001

vrba79 said:

Yeah, currently Genesis 9 is like a new game console that doesn't have any titles I want just yet, but at least now I know it has potential.

Funnily enough, I had amassed a large collection of consoles over the years, (seven systems to be exact) so many decades ago…

So I still use my G1-G8.1 collections, I'm only waiting for a single morph package for G9, and then I'm diving full-in, as the mesh is right for what the figure has the potential to do, not to mention actual texture topology with the skin, I also love the fact that the material zone mapping is solid as well, as it's concise and to the point, yet has the same details as the current shaders/mats are now.

Also of note, the separation of the eyes and mouth means we can better isolate those zones for texturing and sculpting, thank F G9 is so incredibly creator-friendly and why I'm eager to dive right in, at least with character creation, I just won't use G9 in any real scenes yet.

Ghosty12

takezo_3001 said:

vrba79 said:

Yeah, currently Genesis 9 is like a new game console that doesn't have any titles I want just yet, but at least now I know it has potential.

Funnily enough, I had amassed a large collection of consoles over the years, (seven systems to be exact) so many decades ago…

So I still use my G1-G8.1 collections, I'm only waiting for a single morph package for G9, and then I'm diving full-in, as the mesh is right for what the figure has the potential to do, not to mention actual texture topology with the skin, I also love the fact that the material zone mapping is solid as well, as it's concise and to the point, yet has the same details as the current shaders/mats are now.

Also of note, the separation of the eyes and mouth means we can better isolate those zones for texturing and sculpting, thank F G9 is so incredibly creator-friendly and why I'm eager to dive right in, at least with character creation, I just won't use G9 in any real scenes yet.

Unfortunately does not seem to be the case with the mouth, from my short time playing around with G9 doing any teeth or mouth morph will be a pita.

xyer0

Mada said:

I do think that LIE will give you great results - you'll be able to control the zones exactly the way you want instead of being limited by the zones in the figure. If you look in the developer tools for G9 there's a set of overlays called G9 Feminine Landmarks Overlay, same for the masculine shapes. Its for sculpting but I think its also a good overlay for maps to show where the lips are etc. Apply it to your figure, look under surfaces where the texture map is located on your drive and then open that with your image editor. You can then overlay it over images or use it to draw your own lines.

I have to leave for babysitting duties but I'll be back later today.

@Mada You are sooo sweet! Thank you for listening with your heart and finding a solution for vrba. If you weren't such a great content maker, I'd suggest you do some official moderating.

You too, @Canary3D! Thanks for helping.

Havos

I know some people are upset at losing the lip material zone, but speaking personally, I am happy to see it go. When I load almost any female character, pretty much the first thing I do is copy the face settings to the lips to get rid of the fake looking lip gloss that 95% of female characters in the store ship with.

I have also lost count how many times I have changed the settings on the face, eg translucency, but I forgot to select the lip material zone as well. You only spot this after rendering, or in Iray preview. It did not help that selecting skin in the surface settings selected all the skin surfaces except the lips, which always struck me as pretty strange. At least this is not a problem I will suffer using G9.

CHWT

If I compare G8 and G9, IMVHO G9 is far better in terms of the eyes and lashes, but that's it as I am not a creator so I can't really see the beauty of G9 in that aspect. For facial expressions, as I already have Genesis 3 & 8 Face Controls, G3 / 8 / 9 are basically all using FACS, so I am indifferent. For joint bending, again it's a matter of personal taste and I still like G8 better after applying the joint correctives on G9. So I will use G9 for closeups (which for me most are just converted G8 characters). For full body shots I will still use G8, at least for now

vrba79

xyer0 said:

Mada said:

I do think that LIE will give you great results - you'll be able to control the zones exactly the way you want instead of being limited by the zones in the figure. If you look in the developer tools for G9 there's a set of overlays called G9 Feminine Landmarks Overlay, same for the masculine shapes. Its for sculpting but I think its also a good overlay for maps to show where the lips are etc. Apply it to your figure, look under surfaces where the texture map is located on your drive and then open that with your image editor. You can then overlay it over images or use it to draw your own lines.

I have to leave for babysitting duties but I'll be back later today.

@Mada You are sooo sweet! Thank you for listening with your heart and finding a solution for vrba. If you weren't such a great content maker, I'd suggest you do some official moderating.

You too, @Canary3D! Thanks for helping.

Yeah, those two really came through for the NPR people.

ChangelingChick

beregar said:

ChangelingChick said:

AllenArt said:

 My females will be covered, but it's the gents that need better nipples IMVHO. 

 Just for you, I'm gonna make a masculin pack just for that :D It'll sell for crap, but I'll do it :D

 

Here or some other site?

 

I only sell here (save for a G2 product I did a little tech work on for a friend years ago).

Psyckosama

Here's the kicker and why I believe so many people are salty. God knows its why I am.

If 9 had better out of the box compatability, even if if broke morphs like g3 to g8, people would grumble and move on. But it breaks everything, which after three generations with semi-compatible compatible clothing, poses, hair, and UVs* is basically a complete tabula rasa, one which is a very bitter pill because we're almost nine years in on Genesis 3/8. Most of us were expecting another year or so of 8.1. If G9 had released along with Daz 5, people would be a lot less upset.

But as is, while I actually do like some of the features of G9, such as the unisex mesh (which was one of the reasons I stuck with Genesis 1 until Genesis 8), and I think seperating the mouth and eyes from the base topology is something that should have been done years ago, and I think adding the gens to the essentals pack was very might the right move, I very much dislike the incompatability issues as well as the topographical issues in the nipple and naval. As I've heard it described, and agree with, Genesis 9 is going to be fantastic for portrates but it looks like it will be comparatively medicore for full body shots, espeically those that have any form of exposure unless you invest in outside products.

Even worse, my personal usecase means that I basically am limited by the effort porting over several hundred individual toon adjustment morphs from a good dozen products because Daz's support for toon-y content has been downright laxidasical since the introduction of iray and even worse, since I tend to do scifi and fantasy renders, most of the outfits I would want to use do not play well with autofit and even without it they can be probelmatic without a number of corrective morphs because I kitbash basically everything.

*Anyone with reasonable experience in Daz can port any G3 clothing item onto G8 in a couple minutes without resorting to autofit, hair in maybe 30 seconds, there more more pose correctors/convereters than most people have fingers, and G8.1 skins can move back with only a little bit of effort with the map transfer tool. Even G8.1s incompatability with G8 expressions can mostly be solved by mucking with file structure.

vrba79

Am I correct in assuming that the eye moisture material uses the same UVmap as the eyeballs themselves?

I wanna be able to have those anime/cartoon style eye highlights, by making the moisture into a transmapped material.

Oso3D

G9 is actually pretty compatible with anything you can autofit. I've had remarkable results with even rigid armor (which normally turns to putty).

I mean, autofit isn't perfect, of course, but it's a lot better than other generational shifts, or even cross-gender stuff. I've been pleasantly surprised; I mean, we PAs have to make a lot of promos and feel the pinch of no G9 native content even more at this point!

'mediocre for full body shots' ... I'm not sure what you're talking about, here; it looks great in full body shots.

 

marble

Oso3D said:

G9 is actually pretty compatible with anything you can autofit. I've had remarkable results with even rigid armor (which normally turns to putty).

I mean, autofit isn't perfect, of course, but it's a lot better than other generational shifts, or even cross-gender stuff. I've been pleasantly surprised; I mean, we PAs have to make a lot of promos and feel the pinch of no G9 native content even more at this point!

'mediocre for full body shots' ... I'm not sure what you're talking about, here; it looks great in full body shots.

 

 

I can't speak for G9 because I have not even loaded the free figure but my past experience is that autofit looks to have worked quite nicely across generations until I start posing - then all kinds of misfitting appears and I either try to fix it in Blender, try to add dForce or - mostly - just abandon it. So my experience is that cross-generation auto-fit is semi-effective to downright poor.

Mada

marble said:

Oso3D said:

G9 is actually pretty compatible with anything you can autofit. I've had remarkable results with even rigid armor (which normally turns to putty).

I mean, autofit isn't perfect, of course, but it's a lot better than other generational shifts, or even cross-gender stuff. I've been pleasantly surprised; I mean, we PAs have to make a lot of promos and feel the pinch of no G9 native content even more at this point!

'mediocre for full body shots' ... I'm not sure what you're talking about, here; it looks great in full body shots.

 

 

I can't speak for G9 because I have not even loaded the free figure but my past experience is that autofit looks to have worked quite nicely across generations until I start posing - then all kinds of misfitting appears and I either try to fix it in Blender, try to add dForce or - mostly - just abandon it. So my experience is that cross-generation auto-fit is semi-effective to downright poor.

I think you'll find that autofit is working much better this time around, even with posing. A lot of time was spent on the templates and autofit to make clothing compatible from previous generations on a completely different mesh/rig - so far the feedback has been positive :)

The geograft nipples available so far looks good for nudes - and there are more nipple morphs/packs/geografts that will come out, I know of several in the pipeline. I expect that after a bit of time G9 will have more nipple options than any of the previous versions, with way more shapes and sizes than before.

The geograft creators already found that there needs to be 2 nipple sets, one for male and one for female. That is exactly why G9 is created the way it is - the nipples on G1 were always slightly off and on the wrong spot and caused endless issues with clothing.

vrba79

I think we'll know just how well it works once more exagerated morphs come out.

marble

Mada said:

marble said:

Oso3D said:

G9 is actually pretty compatible with anything you can autofit. I've had remarkable results with even rigid armor (which normally turns to putty).

I mean, autofit isn't perfect, of course, but it's a lot better than other generational shifts, or even cross-gender stuff. I've been pleasantly surprised; I mean, we PAs have to make a lot of promos and feel the pinch of no G9 native content even more at this point!

'mediocre for full body shots' ... I'm not sure what you're talking about, here; it looks great in full body shots.

 

 

I can't speak for G9 because I have not even loaded the free figure but my past experience is that autofit looks to have worked quite nicely across generations until I start posing - then all kinds of misfitting appears and I either try to fix it in Blender, try to add dForce or - mostly - just abandon it. So my experience is that cross-generation auto-fit is semi-effective to downright poor.

I think you'll find that autofit is working much better this time around, even with posing. A lot of time was spent on the templates and autofit to make clothing compatible from previous generations on a completely different mesh/rig - so far the feedback has been positive :)

The geograft nipples available so far looks good for nudes - and there are more nipple morphs/packs/geografts that will come out, I know of several in the pipeline. I expect that after a bit of time G9 will have more nipple options than any of the previous versions, with way more shapes and sizes than before.

The geograft creators already found that there needs to be 2 nipple sets, one for male and one for female. That is exactly why G9 is created the way it is - the nipples on G1 were always slightly off and on the wrong spot and caused endless issues with clothing.

Just so I understand ... are you saying that the autofit code has been updated so that ALL autofitting (not just for G9) is improved or is this only for fitting older generation clothing to G9?

Mada

marble said:

Mada said:

marble said:

Oso3D said:

G9 is actually pretty compatible with anything you can autofit. I've had remarkable results with even rigid armor (which normally turns to putty).

I mean, autofit isn't perfect, of course, but it's a lot better than other generational shifts, or even cross-gender stuff. I've been pleasantly surprised; I mean, we PAs have to make a lot of promos and feel the pinch of no G9 native content even more at this point!

'mediocre for full body shots' ... I'm not sure what you're talking about, here; it looks great in full body shots.

 

 

I can't speak for G9 because I have not even loaded the free figure but my past experience is that autofit looks to have worked quite nicely across generations until I start posing - then all kinds of misfitting appears and I either try to fix it in Blender, try to add dForce or - mostly - just abandon it. So my experience is that cross-generation auto-fit is semi-effective to downright poor.

I think you'll find that autofit is working much better this time around, even with posing. A lot of time was spent on the templates and autofit to make clothing compatible from previous generations on a completely different mesh/rig - so far the feedback has been positive :)

The geograft nipples available so far looks good for nudes - and there are more nipple morphs/packs/geografts that will come out, I know of several in the pipeline. I expect that after a bit of time G9 will have more nipple options than any of the previous versions, with way more shapes and sizes than before.

The geograft creators already found that there needs to be 2 nipple sets, one for male and one for female. That is exactly why G9 is created the way it is - the nipples on G1 were always slightly off and on the wrong spot and caused endless issues with clothing.

Just so I understand ... are you saying that the autofit code has been updated so that ALL autofitting (not just for G9) is improved or is this only for fitting older generation clothing to G9?

No - the templates have been improved for G9 - so that outfits convert and pose well on G9. It would involve going back and redoing templates for previous generations to update them all.

As I get time I'll work on adding more templates for outfits like jackets, hoop dresses and loin cloths etc.

With the new visible templates you can load from utilities on G9 it is much easier to add and change the templates too - so if you have a custom character you can edit the template to fit the morph and then after that autofit will add the morph to outfits automatically.

Mada

vrba79 said:

Am I correct in assuming that the eye moisture material uses the same UVmap as the eyeballs themselves?

I wanna be able to have those anime/cartoon style eye highlights, by making the moisture into a transmapped material.

I think so but I would have to open DS to check - will do that when I'm back at my computer :)

MikeyFTL

I lost interest in G8/8.1 almost immediately. I was never a fan of the multiple figures and always prefered male and female together in one. I was happy to see G9 go back to a single figure. Plus there's just something about the realism of G9's Iray renders that has resparked my interest in the whole platform to the point of wanting to create content for it again. 

I mean look at him....or her....or they.

vrba79

MikeyFTL said:

I lost interest in G8/8.1 almost immediately. I was never a fan of the multiple figures and always prefered male and female together in one. I was happy to see G9 go back to a single figure. Plus there's just something about the realism of G9's Iray renders that has resparked my interest in the whole platform to the point of wanting to create content for it again. 

I mean look at him....or her....or they.

That is the draw to me with G9. And since a few of us have sussed out a nice way to make NPR stuff with it. I just have to play the waiting game on character morphs I want. G8 will tide me over until then. My main off-site project still uses that.

AllenArt

MikeyFTL said:

I lost interest in G8/8.1 almost immediately. I was never a fan of the multiple figures and always prefered male and female together in one. I was happy to see G9 go back to a single figure. Plus there's just something about the realism of G9's Iray renders that has resparked my interest in the whole platform to the point of wanting to create content for it again. 

I mean look at him....or her....or they.

Very handsome, even with the freckles. LOL 

Mattymanx

Mada said:

vrba79 said:

Am I correct in assuming that the eye moisture material uses the same UVmap as the eyeballs themselves?

I wanna be able to have those anime/cartoon style eye highlights, by making the moisture into a transmapped material.

I think so but I would have to open DS to check - will do that when I'm back at my computer :)

 

I've already looked.  The eye and the moisture are on the exact same UV map.  THe eye moisture only uses a normal map.  YOu can remove it and just use the setting as is if you want or any glossy shader like water and glass that suits your needs.

 

 

MikeyFTL said:

I lost interest in G8/8.1 almost immediately. I was never a fan of the multiple figures and always prefered male and female together in one. I was happy to see G9 go back to a single figure. Plus there's just something about the realism of G9's Iray renders that has resparked my interest in the whole platform to the point of wanting to create content for it again. 

I mean look at him....or her....or they.

That looks really good Mike! 

vrba79

Haha! Excellent. Now I just sit and wait for the anime/toon characters to start rolling in.

Hylas

Only kinda-sorta following the discourse here... I don't quite understand how hostile some folks seem about G9. I say that as someone who's not planning on using G9, at least not for now. Relax, kids :)

takezo_3001

Hylas said:

Only kinda-sorta following the discourse here... I don't quite understand how hostile some folks seem about G9. I say that as someone who's not planning on using G9, at least not for now. Relax, kids :)

 You will always get people complaining with every release of a new generation, and the complaints are mostly the same, as most of it stems from the fear of change… (And nostalgia) Some people love change while others want everything to stay the same for all eternity, which is the most unrealistic expectation to have with this hobby, as it's wholly predicated on changing tech.

EDIT: Sure, some want their investments to mean something, but nearly every piece of clothing/hair from G1, up to 9 can be used with the new figure, as well as the poses with either a freebie with its manual implementation, or a script for sale that does it automatically, either way, there is no reason why there should be so much push-back, particularly since no one is forcing anyone to use G9.

 

vrba79

What's the hair situation gonna be like? Some G8 hair required a lot of manual transmap size reduction to make rendering times bearable. I can only assume the same will be true for G9 hair. I did notice that hair was not an option for the autofit clones when I tried putting an older hair on G9.

Mada

vrba79 said:

What's the hair situation gonna be like? Some G8 hair required a lot of manual transmap size reduction to make rendering times bearable. I can only assume the same will be true for G9 hair. I did notice that hair was not an option for the autofit clones when I tried putting an older hair on G9.

Hair templates is on the list - should be soon :)

terry_duquette

Continue to test and learn on G9, character blend from G8 transferred morphs, some G9 body morphs, auto-fitted clothes working really well! Transferred Body compression effects, then made a shirt morph to allow the bra to be seen and not poke thru. Went digging around in G9, there really is "A Lot Under The Hood"!! I have moved, transferred and saved enough content that I am now having fun with the G9 platform. Waiting on some more HD stuff for the male side (muscle, striations and veins primarily), but content for now. Thanks to all the PA's and users making videos and creating tutorials to keep things moving. TD

vrba79

Mada said:

vrba79 said:

What's the hair situation gonna be like? Some G8 hair required a lot of manual transmap size reduction to make rendering times bearable. I can only assume the same will be true for G9 hair. I did notice that hair was not an option for the autofit clones when I tried putting an older hair on G9.

Hair templates is on the list - should be soon :)

Good deal! I'm gonna be all set on clothes and hair then.