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Hey all, I hope you don't mind my constant posts here.
I've come to grips with the idea that I can't render with my GPU. Not happy about that. Oh well.
The next thing I started to tackle is luxcore materials. Specifically trying to get realism with skin surfaces.
I found this thread:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/29998/
I loaded a sphere and used a skin color in place of a texture, but copied all the other values that Jonstark used. When I render I get a yellow/green ball. Nowhere near a skin tone.
Does anyone know where I can get some more sample luxcore shaders to tinker/study/reverse engineer?
Thanks again.
Keep in mind that the settings I used were for Luxus skin using a texture map for daz characters. I haven't actually played with Luxcore yet (though I've been watching this thread and will definitely be purchasing Luxcore when it goes to market), and shaders might be completely different in Luxcore.
Joeping is kind of a genius with all things Lux, he might be able to give some good pointers for what kinds of settings work well in Luxcore (especially looking at that outstanding internal plane render he just put up!)
This is another quick experiment with Carrara 8.5 Pro and LuxusCore Carrara. This time I converted the textures to luxcore shaders. I also experimented with using Lux mix shaders to combine the surface with a mirror so that I could adjust the reflections.
Outstanding as usual joeping!
Is there any documentation on how to convert textures to luxcore or are you achieving this through experimentation?
Thanks
Thanks Lordghoul,
I don't know of any documentation on Luxuscore Carrara. Since it's in Beta, there may not be much out there. I have learned a lot from this thread.
I use these config settings for animation:
batch.halttime = 24
sampler.type = SOBOL
I normally only use IPR to set up a scene and then render a final in the render room.
Sphericlabs. told me how to mix luxuscore shaders:
LuxCore Surface
> LuxCore Mix
>> LuxCore Null
>> LuxCore Matte or whatever material you desire
>> Amount is 0.0 for Null, 1.0 for Matte, or put a carrara texture map in there for something like eyelashes.
You can swap the order of Null and Matte if you want 1.0 for fully transparent.
This works for any shader. In my last experiment with the car, I used:
LuxCore Surface
> LuxCore Mix
>> LuxCore Car paint
>> LuxCore Mirror
>> Amount : 25
For human skin I have been trying to leave them as default. That way the DAZ library I have can be used. It may be better to follow Jonstarks method for LUxus, but tho change it for Luxuscore. Some experimentation will be needed. I have been getting good results with the default. Especially if I render it at twice the final size and reduce it to final size. This gets rid of some of the grain and keeps details.
Also I used a mesh light on Car to light the scene. Mesh lights have to be done via the luxcore materials and work great. Make anything a LuxCore Matte material and turn up the power on the Emission channel. As a heads up if you make a plane and make it emit, it will emit out of one side of the plane, not both.
I will say after using Luxuscore I can't go back to Luxus. Luxuscore Carrara is so much easier to use and faster. Plus animation is a possibility now.
Outstanding as usual joeping!
Is there any documentation on how to convert textures to luxcore or are you achieving this through experimentation?
Thanks
The only manual there is right now, mostly info taken from this thread:
http://carraracafe.com/plugins/luxuscore-for-carrara-plugin-unofficial-manual-2015-02-15/
Chapter 4 Shaders has links to the basic shaders to start with.
Big update of the unofficial LuxusCore manual is online now, check it out.
As usual, if you have any questions or have something to add, please post.
Thanks for all the help so far.
http://carraracafe.com/plugins/luxuscore-for-carrara-plugin-unofficial-manual-2015-02-15/
Thanks everyone for all the follow up!
It looks like I'm just going to have to keep playing with this a little more.
In the Carrara built-in photo-realistic renderer I used to fake SSS with the glow channel and edge falloff.
I don't think glow/edge falloff works the same way with luxuscore.
In any case I'd much rather use true SSS if we're going for realism.
Is there a luxuscore way to do SSS?
Is there a way to render the scene/backdrop or does that have to be done through compositing?
Also,
I've already mentioned that the following config produces a black screen:
OpenCL
Path
OPENCL_GPU
while this renders the scene:
OpenCL
Bidirectional - CPU Only
OPENCL_GPU
what is the difference between path and Bidirectional - CPU Only?
Even though I chose OPENCL_GPU I don't think the GPU is actually doing the processing because of the low 1.29M samples/sec and the high CPU usage warnings I get.
One last question, do we know what price range the final product will be?
Thanks again all
The " - CPU Only" found on Bidirectional means that it won't matter if you select OpenCL, it will use the CPU.
Difference between Path and Bidirectional? Bidirectional is considered a smarter algorithm. This probably explains it best:
-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_tracing#Bidirectional_path_tracing
What should LuxusCore cost? Somewhere between $0 to $50 I would think. What say you guys?
My time is very limited to work on LuxusCore, so the following are the slated improvements:
- UI for config and scene options
- command to convert all materials to LuxusCore materials, then you can adjust from there.
- Sample scenes and shaders.
- Stability issues.
Which would you like to see addressed next?
If I could pick two, I would say the UI and then the command to convert materials to LuxusCore. If I could pick only one, I'd say the UI first. Thanks for asking, wish you had more time to work on it, but the bit you've done so far is appreciated.
Difference between Path and Bidirectional? Bidirectional is considered a smarter algorithm. This probably explains it best:
-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_tracing#Bidirectional_path_tracing
What should LuxusCore cost? Somewhere between $0 to $50 I would think. What say you guys?
My time is very limited to work on LuxusCore, so the following are the slated improvements:
- UI for config and scene options
- command to convert all materials to LuxusCore materials, then you can adjust from there.
- Sample scenes and shaders.
- Stability issues.
Which would you like to see addressed next?
[/quote
$29 sound right I think.
I would vote for: Command to convert all materials to LuxusCore materials.
It will make LuxCore practical.
Thank you for the chance to choose.
1. GUI - To get a complete plugin that everyone can use
2. Materials conversion - Nice for have once the plugin has a GUI
3. Stability - Always comes last...
Sample scenes and shaders are easier to do for us, we can start while you are working with the first 3 points.
-I was already planning to create and upload get the basic shaders that ship with Luxus 1.0, to the manual.
-Then there is the Luxus Resource pack by PhilW, that he or someone else can re-create for LuxusCore 1.0
-Plenty of scenes in the thread, that will increase once there is a GUI...
About the cost, if a higher price means that the release will be better or released faster, I would pay more.
You can either do as Reality and release annual updates, or release a basic 1.0 version with an separate addon like the material conversion tool...
My old laptop died, and I just got a new one and installed Carrara and LuxusCore. I don't seem to be able to get the GPU working with the IPR on the new machine. The new system has an Nvidia GTX 970M with 6Gb and an integrated Intel 4600.
LuxusCore identifies everything properly, but when I select the GTX 970M (unbiased - Path), all I get is a black render in the IPR window (elapsed time "counts", but I get 0.00M for samples per second), but GPU rendering works fine in the Render Room (about 4.2M s/s). If I click/check "biased", then the image is rendered with the GTX 970M in both the IPR and Render Room (verified using Open Hardware Monitor), but the render speed in only about 0.9M s/s, and the renders stop at around 15-22 seconds (over 4x slower than unbiased Path tracing).
Selecting CPU seems to work as expected in both the IPR and the Render Room in all modes. Selecting the integrated graphics results in a static "rendered" image in the IPR with the error message "PathOCLBase kernal compilation error", and a blank render in the Render Room (I wasn't expecting it to work, I was just checking to make sure the GPU's were "assigned" properly.
Hope all this makes sense.
Thanks for asking for input!
1. Stability issues (I haven't noticed a lot of issues with LuxusCore - I just prefer to not have things crash so it's high on my list)
2. UI for config and scene options - I think this is important to make things easier for the new user
3. Command to convert all materials to LuxusCore materials, then you can adjust from there.
4. Sample scenes and shaders.
The price is a tough one, especially since DS now has Iray for free. I would say a $20 price range might be the sweet spot. I think keeping it at a low enough price to fall into the impulse buy category would be a plus given the way most purchasing is done here. Though it is certainly worth more, the $20 range might generate more sales (it might even get DS users with ATI cards interested who get hooked on unbiased rendering with Iray, but can't afford (or don't want) an new nvidia card.
Just a wild guess, but maybe you have the powersaving Optimus feature switched on, that switches between the nvidia card and the intel gpu to save power. Try to turn it off in BIOS to see if it helps.
Btw, get one of those laptop coolers to keep your new laptop alive for a few years. GPU rendering is an extreme load for a laptop.
OK, this is probably the dumbest question I'm going to ask.
What is the difference between the existing Luxus plugin (http://www.daz3d.com/luxus-for-carrara) and the new luxuscore plugin?
From what I can tell from the unofficial manual it "brings GPU accelerated rendering and realtime render preview into Carrara."
I assume then that Luxus does not, hence the complaints about render times?
My concern is that I have yet to get luxuscore to take advantage of my GeForce GTX 970 graphics card.
I'm really hoping I'm doing something wrong, otherwise this plugin loses most of its appeal. :(
Guess my manual is not as easy to understand as I thought...
Existing Luxus plugin only exports data to stand alone Luxrender 1.x, which only has CPU rendering.
The new Luxuscore plugin has the new Luxcore render engine integrated and it includes GPU rendering.
Others have reported the GTX970 to work, does your LuxusCore config screen look like in the manual (third pic)?
Does the sample scene (§4 shaders) not render at all?
Do you have the latest NVIDIA drivers installed and running Win 64 bit and Carrara 64 bit?
http://carraracafe.com/plugins/luxuscore-for-carrara-plugin-unofficial-manual-2015-02-15/
Optimus may be the issue, hopefully not though since LuxusCore does work very well with GPU in the render room (I also have the drivers set to always use the GTX 970M).
The old laptop died due to me trying to rip the power receptacle off the mother board about three months ago (tripped over the power cord). Hope to bring it back to life with a new mother board for a backup in a few months. Cooling on it was outstanding, I just propped it up in the back a bit for better air flow.
The new machine actually runs a bit cooler than the old one. Was a bit worried before I got it due to lack of comments about cooling on the web. It'a a Clevo laptop from Prostar - Model 177SM-A, I couldn't afford to go with another MSI, the way they are configured now I would have had to get. 1Tb in SSD's to match the storage on my old system. To test the new machine. I ran it for 30 min using Iray in CPU + GPU mode with the fan on high and the max temp on the GPU was 53 and the CPU max heat was 72. With the fan on auto, it runs about 5 degrees warmer. So hopefully I won't need a cooler for this one, but it might be worth it to keep things even cooler.
If you open NVIDIA Control Center you can force specific applications to always use the good card.
Luxrender 1.4 contains GPU rendering. (it includes all the render engines inluding openCL). Luxcore is a progression, with new code)
With the current Luxus plugin, you can access SLG4(openCL) for CPU and/or GPU via render room.
With Luxrender 1.4, there is also LuxVR (realtime rendering) via SLG4, but Luxus was not updated to include that.
If Luxcore have a UI for config and scene options then it will be easy to use.
Is it planned that all objects can be used (dynamic hair, plants and leaves, spline objects) ?
Play a little bit, rendered in 5:20 min. with this options.
Used Luxcore shaders for the P-40.
renderengine.type = PATHOCL
path.maxdepth = 4
film.filter.type = MITCHELL
film.filter.width = 2
I would be surprised if anyone could make a plugin that would use Carrara's hair in an external renderer. I believe it is tied to the render engine. The same with volumetric clouds.
If you are interested in using the realtime LuxCore stuff you can try:
renderengine.type = RTPATHOCL
opencl.gpu.workgroup.size = 64
Or
renderengine.type = RTBIASPATHOCL
opencl.gpu.workgroup.size = 64
Not much difference, except my machine feels more responsive doing other things. But it freezes Carrara when I stop the IPR.
Thanks, added the info to the manual.
When will the latest beta time-out?
Tried to get my laptop to run Luxuscore, but it fails both in IPR and Render room, the GPU is listed as supported.
The memory gets filled, but the render is black and GPU load is 0% except for the first round. Got to check if the laptop GPU is the problem, or if the new NVIDIA driver with new OpenCL 1.2 support will be better:
http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/37458-nvidia-releases-geforce-350-05-hotfix-driver
CPU rendering works fine.
To be continued...
Current build times out end of April.
Looks like we are going to need a log to track down these issues.
Tried the latest NVIDIA beta driver 350.05 (new OpenCL 1.2 support confirmed) with my Quadro 4000M 2GB and the results are the same.
Just a black window in both IPR and Render room.
(Quadro 4000M is the exact same as GTX460 v1, but lower clocks to keep it at 100W, GTX460 is listed as approved for LuxCore).
Now I need to check out the Luxmark 3.0 benchmarks based on LuxCore, to have a independent test that LuxCore actually works on my laptop.
To be continued...
Tried Luxmark 3.0 on both the desktop and laptop now.
Luxmark 3.0 is saying "Based on LuxCore v1.5dev" which I guess is close to Luxuscore.
The desktop GPU/CPU runs all 3 tests, easy (0,5GB VRAM) , medium (0,8GB) and complex (1GB).
The laptop GPU runs the easy and complex, but never starts the medium which is stuck at
[LuxCore] [301.781] [PathOCLBaseRenderThread::0] Compiling kernels (closed it after 10 minutes waiting)
The complex scene takes about 2 minutes to compile the laptop Quadro 4000M, but 1 second on the desktop Radeon HD7900.
The desktop CPU (OpenCL 1.2) renders all 3 scenes without delay, the laptop CPU (OpenCL 1.1, same Sandy Bridge as the desktop) fails to start all scenes, when LuxCore is supposed to start after LuxRays.
To be continued...
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Installed Intel OpenCL driver 1.2, called "OpenCL™ Runtime 15.1 for Intel® Core" on both the laptop and desktop:
https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/opencl-drivers
Now Luxmark works on the laptop in CPU mode, but the Luxmark medium scene still does not compile on the GPU.
But now Carrara IPR is broken in CPU mode (OpenCL/Path/Unbiased but CPU selected), window is saying ClCreateProgramWithBinary.
The desktop is still fine in both Carrara and Luxmark, the "compiling kernels" time is slower on the Intel CPU with the Intel driver (8000 vs 16 ms), but the benchmark result is faster. Go figure.
Beta testing is difficult...
To be continued...
That is interesting. I will look at what settings the LuxMark 3.0 is using. Also I will update to the latest LuxCore code.
Yes it is, thanks for the updates.
Would be nice to have the status test showing amount of memory used from Luxmark in Luxuscore.
I have done some more OpenCL driver testing, but missing one critical part, the AMD OpenCL 2.0 driver from their SDK that now fails to install, so again to be continued...
But I managed to get all Luxmark tests to run on the laptop with the NVIDIA Quadro card, using Win7 and old Intel OpenCL 1.1 and old NVIDIA OpenCL 1.1, so the graphics card is 100% LuxCore compatible but still just shows a black image in LuxusCore OpenCL/Path/Unbiased mode. Biased mode seems to work.
Once I get the AMD OpenCL 2.0 installed I can say with 100% confidence that LuxusCore always fails with NVIDIA OpenCL drivers (both 1.1 and 1.2) in any OS/driver installation combination in OpenCL/Path/Unbiased mode. As reported by others previously. Now I am about 95% confident that it is not a driver problem and cannot be solved with the AMD drivers for NVIDIA too.