(Released!) Vellus Horizon Shader System USER GUIDE IN COMMENTS

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Comments

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,488

    Hellboy said:

    endlessloving said:

    Hi there, 
    what an awesome product!
    Is there any way to make this work for G8M as well?
    It wold be so nice to not only have it for women. I am wondering why it wasn't released for G8F and G8M in the same time. 
    It could be a product for both!
    Does that make sense? laugh

    Being a Geometry Shell, it works on both male and female, just select the female UVs in surfaces.

    Do you need a product for Female UVs to appear?

     Mine just looks like this

     

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  • ThyranqThyranq Posts: 584

    Can you scroll down any on that list? Mine lists a bunch of UV's, but I can scroll up and down the list in order to see them all.

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,488

    Thyranq said:

    Can you scroll down any on that list? Mine lists a bunch of UV's, but I can scroll up and down the list in order to see them all.

    well, is one of them the opposite gender?

    (No i cannot scroll through them nor arrow down to any hidden UVs...) 

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,306
    edited March 2021

    It really does work best with a strong backlight.

    Post edited by Sevrin on
  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379

    Those Things said:

    cajhin said:

    Bought it today, and I'm happy I did, because now my renders (can) look better, with little effort.

    As was said, it is subtle, which is good, and to me it's less about seeing hair, and more about fuzzing the hyper-sharp line between bright and dark bodies. Also a nice sheen on nosetip and the like.

    Test render attached, just experimenting with high contrast light, a new figure, 8.1 and PBRSkin.

    Notes
    (not at all meant in a negative way, just my thoughts while I was using it)
    - I bought it only because of this thread. (and by the way stumbled across the Embrace Poses. Those look really good / natural. Got it).
    - future me (with the lousy memory) could need a dummy icon in the library with the magic words "Create Geoshell First" (applied vellus on the body first, aargh, not a pretty sight :)
    - How do you adjust the *length* of the vellus in the Surface tab?
    - 8.1: putting it on the face is straight forward, but I probably won't do it for full body shots. Too much fiddling around to fix the Body/Head surfaces (flipping the 'uv switch' left the surfaces white with nothing applied to them). Seems to me 30 steps, lots of trial and error, 20 minutes? Would really appreciate it if there was a "8.1 straight from the library" update in the future. For the kind of render where vellus makes a difference, I'll probably gravitate towards 8.1

    Thanks for creating this, and for listening to us.

    "it's less about seeing hair, and more about fuzzing the hyper-sharp line between bright and dark bodies." Exactly! That's precisely why I created this.
    And thanks for the love for Embrace. I was quite proud of those.
    So, to answer your question, you adjust the length of the hair by increasing (or decreasing) the "Maximum Displacement" setting. I recommend tiny adjustments to keep it real, but it is also kind of fun to crank it up to 1 or so, just to see the fuzz. 

    I'm glad you got it to work on 8.1, and also thank you for posting the instructions for anyone who might be having difficulty! I made this product strictly for 8, not really anticipating 8.1, but I'm happy to report that it works exactly the same, all you really need to do is change the U.V. set. 

     

    I still think an 8.1 preset is needed. There are lots of new users who would find most of these instructions to be incomprehensible.

  • ThyranqThyranq Posts: 584

    These add such lovely detail - definitely one of the best things I've purchased laugh

     

    Full size in the gallery

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,306

    You know what would be really nice?  An assortment of freckles overlays or LIEs.  A lot of freckles only cover cheeks and the nose.  Most people who freckle noticeably do so all over.  It would be nice to have a few options that could be combined (I guess LIE would work best), if desired to increase density.  LIEs would probably make it easier to fiddle with opacity.

  • takezo_3001takezo_3001 Posts: 1,979

    Sevrin said:

    You know what would be really nice?  An assortment of freckles overlays or LIEs.  A lot of freckles only cover cheeks and the nose.  Most people who freckle noticeably do so all over.  It would be nice to have a few options that could be combined (I guess LIE would work best), if desired to increase density.  LIEs would probably make it easier to fiddle with opacity.

    Here ya go, this still works with G 8.1, although if you use the contoured distribution you'll have to swap the translucent legs map with the diffuse map as it's a bit screwed up... 

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,306

    takezo_3001 said:

    Sevrin said:

    You know what would be really nice?  An assortment of freckles overlays or LIEs.  A lot of freckles only cover cheeks and the nose.  Most people who freckle noticeably do so all over.  It would be nice to have a few options that could be combined (I guess LIE would work best), if desired to increase density.  LIEs would probably make it easier to fiddle with opacity.

    Here ya go, this still works with G 8.1, although if you use the contoured distribution you'll have to swap the translucent legs map with the diffuse map as it's a bit screwed up... 

    Oh.  That does look good.  It's also one of the times you really appreciate the Daz Deals plugin to see what others have done with it.

    Thanks a bunch 

  • Hmmm. This is doing odd things to my 8.1 female's face? Is it supposed to darken the eyesockets like this? Also, I have the bangs of the hair hidden by turning the opacity town to 0, but for some reason turning the vellus on makes the shadow show up...?

    Anybody know what is going on?

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,306

    emoryahlberg said:

    Hmmm. This is doing odd things to my 8.1 female's face? Is it supposed to darken the eyesockets like this? Also, I have the bangs of the hair hidden by turning the opacity town to 0, but for some reason turning the vellus on makes the shadow show up...?

    Anybody know what is going on?

    To hide the bangs, I would suggest using the Geometry Editor feature that lets you hide geometry rather than turning down opacity to zero.  It's more effective at hiding and reduces the video memory required, which using opacity does not.

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  • Sevrin said:

    emoryahlberg said:

    Hmmm. This is doing odd things to my 8.1 female's face? Is it supposed to darken the eyesockets like this? Also, I have the bangs of the hair hidden by turning the opacity town to 0, but for some reason turning the vellus on makes the shadow show up...?

    Anybody know what is going on?

     

    To hide the bangs, I would suggest using the Geometry Editor feature that lets you hide geometry rather than turning down opacity to zero.  It's more effective at hiding and reduces the video memory required, which using opacity does not.

    Wow, thank you. I didn't know about that tool. 

    This solved the hidden bangs problem! laugh

    The eye sockets are still darkening, though. 

     

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,306

    emoryahlberg said:

    Sevrin said:

    emoryahlberg said:

    Hmmm. This is doing odd things to my 8.1 female's face? Is it supposed to darken the eyesockets like this? Also, I have the bangs of the hair hidden by turning the opacity town to 0, but for some reason turning the vellus on makes the shadow show up...?

    Anybody know what is going on?

     

    To hide the bangs, I would suggest using the Geometry Editor feature that lets you hide geometry rather than turning down opacity to zero.  It's more effective at hiding and reduces the video memory required, which using opacity does not.

    Wow, thank you. I didn't know about that tool. 

    This solved the hidden bangs problem! laugh

    The eye sockets are still darkening, though. 

     

    Add light.  The vellus shader isn't transparent and it will cast a shadow. 

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,306

    It's cool to see bluejaunte using and listing the vellus shader in the new promo for Gaia. yes

  • Those ThingsThose Things Posts: 1,132

    Sevrin said:

    It's cool to see bluejaunte using and listing the vellus shader in the new promo for Gaia. yes

    I emerge from my laboratory for a few minutes, and find Sevrin in here answering questions like a boss! laugh 

  • SotoSoto Posts: 1,440
    edited April 2021

    It makes the skin looks peachy soft. Love it! :D

     

     

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  • takezo_3001takezo_3001 Posts: 1,979
    edited April 2021

    emoryahlberg said:

    Sevrin said:

    emoryahlberg said:

    Hmmm. This is doing odd things to my 8.1 female's face? Is it supposed to darken the eyesockets like this? Also, I have the bangs of the hair hidden by turning the opacity town to 0, but for some reason turning the vellus on makes the shadow show up...?

    Anybody know what is going on?

     

    To hide the bangs, I would suggest using the Geometry Editor feature that lets you hide geometry rather than turning down opacity to zero.  It's more effective at hiding and reduces the video memory required, which using opacity does not.

    Wow, thank you. I didn't know about that tool. 

    This solved the hidden bangs problem! laugh

    The eye sockets are still darkening, though. 

    That's most likely due to the geometry shell that's using displacement maps, that's my guess as it's not only your eye sockets but the overall figure itself, (Note the nose area) think of it as AO turned up...

    Sevrin said:

    Oh.  That does look good.  It's also one of the times you really appreciate the Daz Deals plugin to see what others have done with it.

    Thanks a bunch 

    Any time!

    Off-topic, I wish these forums had a multi-quote feature...

    Post edited by takezo_3001 on
  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379

    FYI - I tried to use this on Genesis 3 as an experiment.

    Iray refused to render and Daz had to be restarted. This happened twice, with two different characters. 

    I know it's not meant for G3, but it's still odd!

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,306

    Leonides02 said:

    FYI - I tried to use this on Genesis 3 as an experiment.

    Iray refused to render and Daz had to be restarted. This happened twice, with two different characters. 

    I know it's not meant for G3, but it's still odd!

    The issue must have been elsewhere.  It works fine on G3F for me, but you do have to account for the eyelashes.  This is Phryne.

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  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379

    Sevrin said:

    Leonides02 said:

    FYI - I tried to use this on Genesis 3 as an experiment.

    Iray refused to render and Daz had to be restarted. This happened twice, with two different characters. 

    I know it's not meant for G3, but it's still odd!

    The issue must have been elsewhere.  It works fine on G3F for me, but you do have to account for the eyelashes.  This is Phryne.

    Interesting. Yes, this worked on Bethany 7.

    Hm. I'll have to do more experimentation. Thank you!

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379

    In the help log, it freezes here...

    2021-04-13 16:48:09.988 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER ::   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Updating geometry.
    2021-04-13 16:48:09.988 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER ::   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Updating motion transforms.
    2021-04-13 16:48:09.988 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER ::   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Importing scene graph.

    Never gets around to importing the geometry.

    Weird.

     

  • SotoSoto Posts: 1,440
    edited April 2021

    Leonides02 said:

    FYI - I tried to use this on Genesis 3 as an experiment.

    Iray refused to render and Daz had to be restarted. This happened twice, with two different characters. 

    I know it's not meant for G3, but it's still odd!

     Happened to me too using G8M. But I assumed that between the character 4 subdivision level and the heavy scene, the RAM just choked. Remember Vellus Horizon uses displacement subdivision 5 on the Geometry Shell. So if you have a Level 4 Geomery Shell and it also subdivides it by 5, it can get out of hands. Unless I'm missing something. I'm no expert on Geometry Shells. I've had to leverage those values to get it to render.

    Post edited by Soto on
  • Please help and talk to me like I'm 5.  Step by step would be awesome.

     

    I'm using 3feetwolf's HD Nipples for GF8 and your absolutely brilliant Vellus Horizon.  When I use them together I get the dreaded white render over the HD Nipple geo shell.  

    I see that the Vellus Geoshell creates 5 surfaces which are highlighted in the attached picture which are labeled HD Breast For (Arms, Nip L, Nip R, Breast and Inner).  They correspond the the surfaces created by the HD Nipple add-on.

    These surfaces are all default shaders, not Iray and have a white diffuse layer with no map.  I've tried:

    Turning them off in the Horizon shell:  No vellus hairs render over that area.

    Changing the mesh offset: Mucks up the whole render and is still white.

    Converting the Shader, per surface to Iray Uber and copying the maps from HD Nipple surfaces to Vellus Horizon surfaces:  Everything turned greenish.

     

    Please walk me through solving this!

    Thanks!  

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  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379

    Leonides02 said:

    FYI - I tried to use this on Genesis 3 as an experiment.

    Iray refused to render and Daz had to be restarted. This happened twice, with two different characters. 

    I know it's not meant for G3, but it's still odd!

    Just had this problem again with a G8.1 Female.

  • UthgardUthgard Posts: 863
    edited August 2021

    j_koko2_f2572d4e05 said:

    Please help and talk to me like I'm 5.  Step by step would be awesome.

     

    I'm using 3feetwolf's HD Nipples for GF8 and your absolutely brilliant Vellus Horizon.  When I use them together I get the dreaded white render over the HD Nipple geo shell.  

    I see that the Vellus Geoshell creates 5 surfaces which are highlighted in the attached picture which are labeled HD Breast For (Arms, Nip L, Nip R, Breast and Inner).  They correspond the the surfaces created by the HD Nipple add-on.

    These surfaces are all default shaders, not Iray and have a white diffuse layer with no map.  I've tried:

    Turning them off in the Horizon shell:  No vellus hairs render over that area.

    Changing the mesh offset: Mucks up the whole render and is still white.

    Converting the Shader, per surface to Iray Uber and copying the maps from HD Nipple surfaces to Vellus Horizon surfaces:  Everything turned greenish.

     

    Please walk me through solving this!

    Thanks!  

    Try to save the surface of the torso as a shader preset and applying it to the white parts (sometimes you may need to apply the ubersurface Iray shader beforehand). Good luck.

    Post edited by Uthgard on
  • chris-2599934chris-2599934 Posts: 1,811
    edited September 2021

    Picked this up in the sale the other day and have been playing with it. It can acieve some very freaky effects if you abuse the displacement and opacity dials:

    That's obviously being silly, but it shows that this geoshell method could definitely be used for crewcut hairstyles, stubble and short beards. Maybe the odd application, ahem, further south too.

    But I do have to take issue with a line from the product description:

    The workflow couldn't be simpler.

    The workflow could, and should, be much simpler. All that delving around in menus and selecting individual surfaces to apply shaders is way more complicated than it needs to be - and I'm afraid a lot of new and less technically adept customers will struggle to get this brilliant product to work and return it instead.

    I recently put together an altogether more modest Geometry Shell-based freebie: The Geobra. You select a figure, and click the appropriate Geobra icon to load the bra with its default colour and design. You can then change the design and colour by selecting the Geobra shell and clicking the material prest that you like. No menu use or surface selection - it works just like normal clothing, hair, etc. The only problem being that you have to remember to select the shell before changing the materials. I don't see why the Vellus shell couldn't be set up to work the same way.

    Here's how I did mine. I created geometry shells for G3F, G8F and G8.1F, applied the basic materials, and saved each as a Support Asset -> Figure/Prop asset. Then I applied different materials and saved each as a Materials Preset. I'm rather proud of the dodge I came up with to save a single preset file that applies to all three figures: I started with a G3F (because she, unlike the others has an eyebrow surface). I then used the Geometry Editor to select part of her body and assign it to a new surface called "Body" (because G3F doesn't have one, but G8.1F does. I could have done the same thing with the Head surface, but it isn't relevant to my product). Next I applied the first opacity map/colour to the G3F Torso, and copied the surface settings across to the new Body surface, it looks horrible but that doesn't matter because nobody will ever see it. Then I saved the result as a materials preset. What that does is produce a file that says "apply these values to this surface, those values to that one, and so on." If there's a surface specified in the preset that isn't on the target model (like a G3F surfaace on a G8.1F) it's ignored. If the surface on the target model has different geometry to the one where you made the preset, it doesn't matter. 

    So, it seems to me, this product could have a Figure/Prop asset to click on that would create the shell prepped and ready on the model. It could also have materials presets that would apply the Vellus effect to the various bits of the body (and other ones that remove it). If I ever get any spare time, I might try to do it myself and offer it as a freebie expansion pack.

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  • Leonides02 said:

    I still think an 8.1 preset is needed. There are lots of new users who would find most of these instructions to be incomprehensible.

    I really have come to despise workarounds as they usually end up as a permanent placeholder for actual solutions to the problem, I second the fact that the developer should update the product to use G8.1 natively instead of having to remember which hoops you need to jump through to get it working right!

  • SigurdSigurd Posts: 1,086

    Ok. I have followed all the directions and try to render and after 3 hours no image yet. Without Vellus it rendered in 8 minutes.

    I do not know what I did wrong.

    This is on a G8.1 F.

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,306

    Sigurd said:

    Ok. I have followed all the directions and try to render and after 3 hours no image yet. Without Vellus it rendered in 8 minutes.

    I do not know what I did wrong.

    This is on a G8.1 F.

    Hard to know what happened without more information, but the vellus may have bumped your scene off your GPU, and if CPU rendering is disabled, all you get is a black render window. 

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