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Extrusion Confusion!

WsCGWsCG Posts: 391
edited December 2018 in Carrara Discussion

Hi all,

Hopefully I can do a good job of explaining this.

So I'm trying to find a way to get some direct control, or sorta "override Carrara's default behavior" when extruding geometry.

In Blender, you can select the desired edges, press Extrude, and then click to complete the operation, without actually moving the new edges/surfaces. The new geometry is left overlapping the original, and you can then manually translate them how you want.

In my case, I want to create the new edges and move them straight along X, without any scaling. So, in Blender the process would be pressing E to extrude, and then immediately pressing L Mouse to complete the operation. The new edges remain selected, so I just drag them along the X axis.

In Carrara, I can't seem to do this, as it automatically wants to scale the new geometry, or otherwise move it in a direction I don't want it to go and I can't seem to get any control over it, outside of letting it do what it will and then fixing it afterward, which is cumbersome and not ideal, to say the least.

Is there a way to extrude new edges/geometry and leave it in place, so I can then manually move it how/where I want, instead of Carrara doing things automatically?

Hopefully that makes sense xD.

Thanks


 

Post edited by WsCG on

Comments

  • StezzaStezza Posts: 8,063

    have you tried Model--->extract around edge

    or Model--->extract along

     

     

  • WsCGWsCG Posts: 391
    edited December 2018
    Stezza_Carrara9 said:

    have you tried Model--->extract around edge

    or Model--->extract along

     

     

    Hiya, @Stezza

    That wouldn't do what I'm trying to do. Extract operates on existing geometry. I'm trying to create/extrude new geometry.

    Post edited by WsCG on
  • MarkIsSleepyMarkIsSleepy Posts: 1,496
    edited December 2018

    Not sure if this solves your problem, but you can hold control or shift while extruding to constrain how it extrudes. It's kind of like hitting x, y, or z to constrain the direction of the extrusion in Blender. Control will make it extrude along the normal without scaling and shift will make it extrude perpendicular to the normal (basically just scaling without moving). Is that more like what you are looking for?

    You could also try playing with the different extrusion modes. Once you turn on Dynamic Extrusion, there are a couple different options you can click to get different default behaviors.The second one will make it extrude without scaling.

    I know this is not exactly the behavior you are looking for, but it might be an improvement on the default.

    Capture.JPG
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    Post edited by MarkIsSleepy on
  • WsCGWsCG Posts: 391
    MDO2010 said:

    Not sure if this solves your problem, but you can hold control or shift while extruding to constrain how it extrudes. It's kind of like hitting x, y, or z to constrain the direction of the extrusion in Blender. Control will make it extrude along the normal without scaling and shift will make it extrude perpendicular to the normal (basically just scaling without moving). Is that more like what you are looking for?

    You could also try playing with the different extrusion modes. Once you turn on Dynamic Extrusion, there are a couple different options you can click to get different default behaviors.The second one will make it extrude without scaling.

    I know this is not exactly the behavior you are looking for, but it might be an improvement on the default.

    Thanks for the response and suggestion.

    I gave the tools a go-through, and at first it seemed to do just about what I wanted, with a little extra tweaking. I was able to directly control the direction it was extruding in. And I thought I had it worked out.

    But then when I went back to reproduce the exact same process/steps - same tool, etc... It then decided "nope, now we're going to extrude vertically and not give you any control over it".

    So I dunno lol. Carrara seems to be extremely finicky, at best.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,217

    well you can always use Blender too yes

    I even do

  • StezzaStezza Posts: 8,063

    when using the extrude tool you can hold down either shift or ctrl before extruding...

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 9,987

    dunno if this will help - ie changing the working plane - havent tried it as s s rendering

    Changing the Drawing Plane

    To make your work easier, you can change the Drawing plane to different axes and move it to a selection or a specific set of coordinates. You can also drag it to any position you like.

    The easiest and quickest way to move the drawing plane and the working box to a specific position is to Command/Ctrl+click the vertex, edge or polygon where to move it.

    To move the Drawing plane to a selection:

    1. Select the vertex, polygon, or group of vertices with which you want to align the Drawing plane.

    2. Be sure the Selection tool is chosen.

    3. Command/Ctrl+click your mouse.

    If the selection is a single vertex, Carrara centers the Drawing plane on that vertex without changing the plane's orientation.

    If the selection is a group of vertices or a polygon, Carrara moves the Drawing plane to the plane shared by those vertices. If the vertices lie in different planes, the Drawing plane is moved so that all the selected points are as near the Drawing plane as possible.

    To reset the working box position to its original position, Command/Ctrl+click an empty area of the 3D View or choose View> Reset Working Box.

    To send the Drawing plane to specific coordinates:

    1. Choose View menu> Send Drawing Plane to. The Send Plane dialog appears

    2. Specify the universe's X, Y, and Z coordinates to which you want to move the Drawing plane.

    3. Enable a plane option:

    • Drawing plane Moves the Drawing plane on the axis perpendicular to itself by the amount you specify. For instance, you could move a Drawing plane lying on the X and Y axes by the specified amount on the Z axis only.

    • Drawing plane centered Moves the Drawing plane on the axis perpendicular to itself by the amount you specify, centering it on the remaining coordinates. For instance, you could move a Drawing plane lying on the X and Y axes by a specified amount on the Z axis, centering it on the X and Y axes.

    • All planes Moves the origin of the working box to the specified coordinates, centering all planes. Note that this option moves the working box itself.

    1. Click OK.

    Moving the Working Box and its Planes

    You'll find it particularly useful to move the working box when you want to model or view a specific part of a vertex object. You can also drag the planes of the working box separately. If you drag a plane far enough, you will drag the working box along with it, re-centering the working box in the universe.

    To move the working box to specific coordinates:

    1. Choose View menu> Send Working Box to. The Send Working Box dialog appears.

    2. Enter the coordinates where you want to position the center of the working box.

    3. Click OK.

    To move the working box manually:

    • Command+Option/Ctrl+Alt click the working box and drag it to wherever you like.

    • Hold the Command/Ctrl key to move the working box perpendicular to the Drawing plane.

    • Release the Command/Ctrl key to move the working box in the Drawing plane.

    • Hold the Shift key to drag the working box in the Drawing plane by its interior planes.

    To drag a plane:

    • Command/Ctrl+Shift+Alt click the plane and drag it to wherever you like.

    You can drag in any pane or view you like, whether 2D or 3D.

    Changing Your Point of View

  • rock livretterock livrette Posts: 53

    For (well...almost....) quick and easy extrusion: copy the edge you want to extrude, paste it and place it where you want it to be - then connect it via the polygon tool with the original object. Might only help for simple operations and objects.

    polygon tool.jpg
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  • WsCGWsCG Posts: 391
    edited December 2018
    Stezza_Carrara9 said:

    when using the extrude tool you can hold down either shift or ctrl before extruding...

    Yeah, I've tried that. It either makes the new geometry scale, or move straight up. Neither gives me the control I describe over it.

    Here's a visual of what I'm trying to do. This involves about 3 keystrokes in Blender.
    E to Extrude
    X, Y or Z to set Axis
    Left Click to finish move.
    Same process to extrude faces or vertices.

    I'm holding down control which is snapping the movement to grid. I can have it move freely, too. Just a habit to grid snap.


     

    Post edited by WsCG on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,169

    In Carrara, I can replicate the video in the same number of moves by holding down the control key and using the mouse  (see attached).  If I try to use the manual offset numerical box, I get quirky results.  Hexagon offers more extrude options and precision than Carrara.  Maybe take a look at Hexagon if there is a reason not to use Blender.

    aa02 start with flat square with one edge selected.JPG
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    aa03 control extrude to get horizontal.JPG
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    aa04 far side up.JPG
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  • WsCGWsCG Posts: 391
    edited December 2018

    I hit the point where I'd spent/wasted far more time trying to figure it out in Carrara. I really want to dig into Carrara, but every time I dig in, it's not long before I realize how poorly thought out many common/frequent tasks are.

    I

    I'm bringing everything into DS ultimately to setup and render out, so I'm not depending on

    Diomede_Carrara said:

    In Carrara, I can replicate the video in the same number of moves by holding down the control key and using the mouse  (see attached).  If I try to use the manual offset numerical box, I get quirky results.  Hexagon offers more extrude options and precision than Carrara.  Maybe take a look at Hexagon if there is a reason not to use Blender.

    How the heck are you doing that, then? The screenshots show the results of what you're doing, but not it actually being done. If that makes sense, so I have no sense of what button/key presses your'e doing.

    I can not get control over the extrusion at all in Carrara, even using the Ctrl key. It either scales out or only goes up or down. I can't get it to go any other direction, or to stay put so I can then just move it normally. I've tried it at least a dozen times lol. It feels like it's hard coded to only work in specific ways, and you can't do anything else with it.

     

    Post edited by WsCG on
  • DesertDudeDesertDude Posts: 1,235

    Hi TCY, maybe this video will help?

     

    http://carraracafe.com/tutorials/dynamic-extrusion-tool/

     

    I'm 1000 miles away from my Carrara computer so I can't test what (I think) I do all the time, lol, but:

    Select edges you want to Extrude
    Select the Dynamic Extrusion tool
    Left Click and drag - the geometry will scale all wonky as you slide the mouse around - don't panic!
    Press Ctrl and the geometry should be scaled/snap back to the same size as your initial selection. You can keep holding the Left Mouse button down along with Ctrl and drag, or release both and your new extrusion should be selected and you can drag using the Move tool in any direction you want.

     

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,169

    I am just holding the control key while extruding (click drag).  You are correct.  It only works for one of parallel or perpendicular.  Carrara is not offering more extrude directions than that.  See descriptions written on attached screenshots.

    bb01b insert vertex grid 2 by 2.jpg
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    bb02b results in square 2 by 2.jpg
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    bb03b seelct lne on side which is two vertexes.jpg
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    bb04b click extrude tool.jpg
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    bb05b hold control key and click drag.jpg
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    bb06b select two sides.jpg
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    bb07b click extrude and make sure link polygon selected.jpg
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    bb08b hold control key and click and drag.jpg
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  • WsCGWsCG Posts: 391
    edited December 2018
    Diomede_Carrara said:

    I am just holding the control key while extruding (click drag).  You are correct.  It only works for one of parallel or perpendicular.  Carrara is not offering more extrude directions than that.  See descriptions written on attached screenshots.

    Okay, so I have been doing it correct, but Carrara doesn't offer the same level of control as Blender. I'm not going crazy after all lol.

    That makes more sense.

    Okay thanks.

    I'm probably just going to stick with working in Blender for now. I tend to run into these weirdly implemented tools/controls in Carrara, and Hexagon for that matter. I guess what Blender lacks in having a very "busy" and  "unorthodox" UI (at least 'til 2.8 which is more standardized for Windows), it makes up for by having more direct and immediate control for the modeler. Fair trade.
     

    Post edited by WsCG on
  • StezzaStezza Posts: 8,063
    edited December 2018
    TCY said:
    Stezza_Carrara9 said:

    when using the extrude tool you can hold down either shift or ctrl before extruding...

    Yeah, I've tried that. It either makes the new geometry scale, or move straight up. Neither gives me the control I describe over it.

    Here's a visual of what I'm trying to do. This involves about 3 keystrokes in Blender.
    E to Extrude
    X, Y or Z to set Axis
    Left Click to finish move.
    Same process to extrude faces or vertices.

    I'm holding down control which is snapping the movement to grid. I can have it move freely, too. Just a habit to grid snap.


     

    I just did exactly the same extrusions with no problems, starting with a single poly... are you selecting the correct plane on the LH side for the extrusion you need?

    onepoly_start.jpg
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    Post edited by Stezza on
  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 9,987

    nice example Stezza

    I'm not really finding any problem with Carrara's edge extrusion. Just choose parralel or regular extrusion and it works fine - you can put the extruded edge whereever you want. Of course it helps if you choose the right viewpoint.

    As you know you can enter it numerically if you want

    there's a few threads about this from the past if you google

     

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675

    for making a ridge i like cut a loop of edges, then slide the new row, i remember options for world space and something for like local space to slide on a normal, forgot which was which 

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