How about different flavours of (insert character name & generation here) Pro Bundles?
Blind Owl
Posts: 501
The latest addition to the DAZ lineup, Alexandra 8, looks fine. A refreshing change from the usual run of vapid young things, but...
I haven't the slightest interest in elf ears, Olympian goddesses, or warrior queens, so a fair chunk of the present offering would be a complete waste of money for me. Now if there was an "Alexandra Pro Contemporary Bundle", I'd be tempted to pick it up, just as others might jump at an "Alexandra Pro Fantasy" or "Pro Sci-Fi" bundle. The same is true of V8 and any number of other pro bundles. I'll never use V7's so-called Post Apocalyptic outfit, or the Austrani outfit, but I've got them anyway.
With all the bundles already for sale, how hard could it be to offer them in different flavours? (I'm asking; I don't pretend to know.) Even if took a fair bit of extra work, I suspect sales would increase because customers would then have a choice based on their present interests.
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Comments
While the elf ears may be a turn off for you, they are simply an option. As a character maker, we will usually make ears as an option that you can turn on and off. Plus we usually provide non-fantasy options in the makeup/nails area. We understand that fantasy doesn't work for everyone.
I did see a bunch of contemporary pieces available for Alexandra, I hope you seek those out and enjoy her mature beauty.
I think with the Pro Bundles and the like, Daz is trying to hit the broadest set of appeals that they can with any new shape. And as Lyoness said, the character makers do a pretty good job of rounding out their characters with fantasy and contemporary options.
Where we get stuck is in the clothing arena. What goes into the Pro Bundles (and the like) are what the PAs submit to Daz for buyouts. And while Daz has been very good about letting the PAs know what direction they want us to go with the Genesis 8 shapes, it still boils down to the individual PAs and what they want/like to create. (It would be one thing if we all just banged out whatever Daz told us to make, but the real quality in our products come from the PAs being allowed to build what strikes their fancy. I know from experience that sets that I don't enjoy making, I feel that the quality suffers, compared to the sets that I'm really jazzed about making.) And unfortunately it's the outfits in the bundles that kind of set the tone for how the bundle will be perceived (fantasy or contemporary).
And while I agree that it might be nice to have a selection of flavors for the bundles, Daz does the best with what gets submitted for any given new shape to maximize the new shape's overall appeal. It's not always perfect, but they make sure that there's a little of something for everyone in each bundle.
Sorry, Lyoness, I didn't mean to slight elf ears. As a matter of fact, my (female) Skyrim character has a very sexy pair of elf ears. I only mentioned them as an example, and a poor example since it turns out they're not mandatory. Should have investigated further instead of just skimming the promo pics. Mea culpa.
Nor was I bad-mouthing Olympian goddesses or warrior queens or Austrani outfits or anything else in any of the bundles on offer. I was merely suggesting that even a fairly narrow range of choices, based on the customer's primary interests, would greatly increase their appeal. Some day I might want to tackle a fantasy project, and if there's, say, an Alexandra 9 Pro Fantasy bundle I'll probably jump all over it.
And yes, Alexandra 8 is indeed a beauty.
I admit to total ignorance of the product creation and bundling process(es) so I don't even know what a buyout is, or how many consultations, iterations, and hoops a PA has to go through to get a product to market.
As you say, Daz is trying to hit the broadest set of appeals. That's obvious even to me, a relative infant as far as DS is concerned (10 months older and thousands of dollars poorer than when we first met.
). I'm suggesting that, if it's possible--and not a whole lot more trouble to make, or package--more choices might appeal to more tastes and/or interests, and appeal to even more customers.
Of course there's alway the counter-argument: "If it ain't broke..."
There's two things keeping me from buying those Pro sets:
As I guess I'm not the only one thinking this way, the offer for more themed sets (like those examples by @Blind Owl) would mayhaps make people feel they would get even more for their money.
Ah, thanks for the explanation.
I like this new Alexandra 8 , I just wish I could affored to buy the pro bundle I could and would use all of it. Great job to all the artists and Daz . :)
I mentioned the Alexandra 8 Pro Bundle by way of a recent pro bundle example, not to praise or disparage that particular offering. The larger subject is whether or not it's possible or desirable to offer bundles in different flavours to suit different tastes or interests.
Well I've noticed a sizable number of Alexandra products listed that aren't included in the Pro Bundle and it was the same for prior 8 pro bundles too. They should let us build a Pro Bundle from the a subset of Alexandra affliated products. Pro Bundle sales would probably go way up. You could go all Greco-Roman Goddess or you could go all Modern American when you built your pro bundle.
I also noticed that you have to buy 3 associated products and the Pro Bundle to get the freeble bundles as given away in past 8 pro bundles.
I like how pro bundles are, dont want to any changes, thats my vote
I think the choices are clear, you can still buy the base character only or the starter bundle, or fill your bundle with the add-ons you like, its very flexible as it is
What we need is more patience as each month we'll see a new pro bundle with a different dominant focus: contemmporary, scifi...
I hear what you are saying Blind Owl it would be nice if you could just build your own bundle using other products of your own choice the more you buy the bigger the discount.
A lot of those are PA products, not DAZ Originals.
Again, the Pro Bundles are products that Daz has either commissioned from certain PAs, or were offered by a PA to Daz as a buyout. The other products you see that happen at a new shape's release are made by PAs who either weren't commissioned, or didn't want to sell their product to Daz. Those products belong to the PA that made them, whereas the products in the Pro Bundles become Daz Originals and are then the property of Daz to sell.
Sometimes a group of the PAs will get together and decide to do a bundle of their own (in fact, Orestes Studios and I are in the midst of making one right now.) But generally these do not coincide with a Daz Original's new shape release (mainly because no one wants to compete against a Pro Bundle - even though not every one buys the Pro Bundles, there are a sizeable number of the customer base that do.) And there's the added factor that even if the PAs put together a bundle of their own, most customers wouldn't have the funds to buy both the Pro Bundle (with the new shape included) and the PA bundle (that wouldn't include the new shape.)
It's possible, but highly unlikely that customers would buy the PA bundle and the new base only shape. And even then, there's no guaranty that the PA bundle would fit the bill for all customers. It's really hard to predict what will sell (and sell well enough to put the effort into making it. For a lot of this, this is our day job to pay the bills and put food on the table.)
Because Daz owns the products in the Pro bundle, they can charge as little as they like on it, and it's not going to affect their bottom line. PA bundles on the other hand are a little different, as we're trying to give the customers a value, but at the same time, we have to split our profits between Daz (who does the marketing, QA, and technical/customer support) and all the PAs involved in the bundle. The more PAs involved, the smaller our profit becomes. PA bundles cannot afford the steep discounts that a Daz O Pro bundle can. It's not that we don't want you to be able to buy our products. I think it often gets lost in the mix that most of the PAs here are trying to make a living. Not all of us are stonemason, who's products sell no matter what they're priced.
I'm not saying to give up hope that the PAs won't give you what you want. It's important to let us know what you're all wanting in products. I'm listening and I'm taking on board the things that have been said. But I also see the production side of things and I know how you can put weeks, even months of work into a product that you'd think will sell, only to see it flop. Yes, one or two people will buy it (and we're grateful. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate each and every one of my customers' patronage. We all do.) but it's a duck shoot when it comes to creating a product that will put food on the table. With mortgages, we have to play it safe and create things that we know will sell (and yeah, a lot of it is the same old things - slutwear sells by a landslide) and then only when we have a moment of economic stability can we take a risk and follow our muses down a different path.
Does that make sense? I'm not meaning to be preachy or trying to shoot your suggestions down. I'm just trying to explain why you're not seeing a PA bundle that coincides with a Daz Original new shape release. There are so many factors that the customers don't see, and I felt you deserved an explanation.
Whereas every product in a character bundle is owned by DAZ, having bought them outright from their creators. I begin to see the difficulty, and I can understand why a lot of creators wouldn't be willing to relinquish all future rights to their babies, as Daywalker Designs pointed out..
So it seems that, unless DAZ decides that providing different-flavoured bundles would be a smart marketing decision, things will likely remain as they are.
Well 'a lot' and 'all' aren't necessarily equivalents.
That makes excellent sense, FeralFey, and thanks for the highly educational post. As a mere civilian I'm ignorant of the ins & outs of bringing a product to market, especially a market like this. Gradually the light begins to dawn, though not as brightly as it used to, or as fast.
Well, maybe someone at DAZ 3D will see this thread and think "What a great idea! We'd sell more bundles and make bigger profits, even if it meant paying PAs twice as much for buyouts!"
DAZ wouldn't have to buy out a bunch more items to do a build-your-own bundle kind of deal. First, there's no reason smaller "Starter Bundles" couldn't be "built" from the products currently included in a Pro Bundle. Second, a lot of people don't buy full Pro Bundles which would leave them options in the future to build from.
So Jamie's picked up everything from the Victoria 8 Pro Bundle but nothing since. Now Alexandra comes out and Jamie really likes her but thinks she works better with more contemporary clothes and isn't into short hair. So Jamie buys this instead of Alexandra's "real" Pro Bundle:
https://www.daz3d.com/alexandra-8
https://www.daz3d.com/briallen-hd-for-alexandra-8
https://www.daz3d.com/fwsa-edith-hd-for-alexandra-8
https://www.daz3d.com/shirt-dress-outfit-for-genesis-8-female-s
https://www.daz3d.com/blazer-and-skinny-jeans-outfit-for-genesis-8-female-s
https://www.daz3d.com/ready-for-bed-pajama-set-for-genesis-8-female-s
https://www.daz3d.com/crochet-dress-outfit-for-genesis-8-female-s
https://www.daz3d.com/anita-hair-for-genesis-8-female-s
https://www.daz3d.com/whitney-hair-for-genesis-3-8-female-s
https://www.daz3d.com/fundamental-poses-for-stephanie-8
https://www.daz3d.com/chichi-poses-for-charlotte-8-genesis-8-female
https://www.daz3d.com/a-lady--expressions-for-genesis-8-females-and-alexandra-8
And Jamie's just bought a "Pro Bundle" worth of stuff that wouldn't have been picked up otherwise.
For people who do buy the whole Pro Bundle every time, nothing would change. It's the people who buy less who would get more options.
Reason: Money.
A PA can make a monthly income from a back catalog for a long time rather than a one shot buyout. Conversely a lot of PA products may have more bells and whistles than the buyouts because the the time expended for a product has to be enough for the money offered... and also the price will need to stay low so customers on a budget will buy it. So you may not get flexibility on a bundle.. that's where the PAs are supposed to come in to fill the gap, but you'll have to make it work their while to do so.
@Lyoness, the shaping control to remove the elf ears (Briallen 00d Elven Ears REM) does not work after loading the Briallen figure (Briallen HD). The shaping control to remove the Briallen head shape (Briallen 00b Head REM) and the Briallen body shape (Briallen 00c Body REM) do not work either. I don't think the nails, navel, and eyelash remove controls work either. Only Briallen 00a full body REM works. When I load the Briallen figure, all those load up and I can't get rid of them with the controls you provided
The individual REM controls only seem to work if the individual Apply controls were used on a base G8F first.
Can you please fix this? I will submit a help request.
If you load the character preset figure, the presets cannot be removed via the "off" presets. Those only work if you are loading through the morph presets.
To undo the ears, go to "currently used" and slide the dial down.
I agree blind Owl, it would be nice to see "flexible pro bundles on offer", I also have many items I have never used and never will, simply because they came in the bundle. Bundles would be more attractive if the came with options, like a) choice of hair, b) choice of outfit, c) choice of secondary character etc etc. Perhaps alternative sub-bundles for a particular style could be offered as part of a Pro-bundle?
I still wish for a Pirate themed male bundle.
I think I would prefer a bundle which contained the characters and hd morphs vs clothing and hair. I really feel hd morphs are needed to attain the true look of a figure and that would qualify as professional for me.
I don’t think the business model will change but as someone who never renders fantasy I often find the clothing kinda useless for me as there are often a ton of fantasy outfits in the bundles.
It's hard to find a pro bundle without at least a couple of fantasy-themed--oops, I meant Medieval-themed--outfits or whatnot. In fact, the only exception that springs to mind is the Teen Josie 8 bundle, which had enough useful items to make me pull the trigger on it. Plus that product rollout included several older pro bundles as honest-to-goodness freebies...unlike the most recent offering, Alexandra 8, which forces you to buy additional items to qualify for the 'freebies'.
I have enjoyed the 'make your own bundle' option. It would be sweet if there were a number of contemporary items, sci-fi items, etc. and the user can decide which type of items they want in their bundle. This would give a broad number of options and allow the user to get exactly the type of items they want.
Or am I naieve?
Oh, this is something the buyer has to deal with anyway. Check the fits on the Shirt Dress.