dForce... For all Hair!
sierrasixtwo
Posts: 0
It would be so nice to have all artists capable of releasing their hair products with the full power and realism of the new dForce system.
I hope the devs adopt this!
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Hear ye! Hear ye! I second the motion!
I have experiemented dForce with some hair products. The one thing it does really well, if you can stop the process in time, is create a wet-version of the hair. dForce literally pulls the hair down that by the end of pose animation the hair looks as if it is melting off the skull, but somewhere in between it looks awesome for wet hair.
I would love to see Hair figures made specifically with dForce in mind. At the moment DAZ is not supporting this application. On the other hand dForce does work with some Hair figures, or can be made to. So, it's up to the PAs... there is a market out there.
The tough thing with hair, is that at best it is a really complex one-piece geometry, and at worst it is totally not (which will explode the hair the second you stimulate it). The strands collide with each other and as a result it tangles up and formed the wet hair look.
Getting a realistic stimulation is like walking on a branch between two different valley - explosion and wet hair
But I'm half way there so I will keep you guys informed ;)
Looking forward to what you can do EcVho :)
I will try my best ;)
Pretty much everyone's using the same technique of "strips" (either that or I somehow wound up with multiple hairs from the same vendor) with scanned hair textures, and those strips are actually the reason dForce explodes them.
What I have found is that if you set each layer of the hair to a different collision layer, and turn off Self Collision, it doesn't explode.
I've been using the Geomoetry Editor to create new Surfaces from each section, but leaving the "roots" of each piece out of the selection (twop 2 or 3 rows of polygons). This keeps the strips from melting off the head, even if, when viewed separately, they were never really attached to the top of the head, like with the Charm Hair.
Once you get your Dynamic Surfaces made, set the Dynamics to the roots to 0, and assign both the original/roots surface and the newly-created dynamic surface to a collision layer based on their proximity to the head.
Skullcap is Layer 1, the one on top of that is 2 (could be bangs, could be something else - it varies from hair to hair), and then the next layer is 3, and so on. You have to zoom in on each area to see how they're stacked.
So, for example, if you have Skullcap, Bangs, Base, Middle, Top, and Wisps, you'll create a new Surface with the Geometry Editor for the Base, Middle, Top, and Wisps, leaving their roots/top ends out of the selection (or else they won't act as roots). For the Charm Hair, the Bangs portion is more like a combed-tight-and-pinned-to-the-head thing, instead of hanging-over-the-forehead, so it won't get dynamics, which means you don't need to create a new Surface from that or the skullcap.
The Bnags share the same layer as the Skullcap, so they get the same Collision Layer (1), and Dynamics set to 0.
The Base is on top of those two, the Middle is on top of that, and the Top on top of that. The Wisps are the outermost layer, so you'll end up with at least 4 more collision layers. Base is 2, Middlie is 3, Top is 4, and Wisps is 5. Again, that's the root and the part (or parts, if you split the layers up even further into left and right, front left and front right, back left and back right) you want to be dynamic.
You can go even further and have the roots of the Top at 0 Dynamics, a middle section just below the roots with Dynamics set to 70%-80% to restrict its movement, then a 3rd section that goes from the middle to the end, which gets full dynamics. By slowly scaling the Dynamics value for each section, you can strike the balance between "Aqua Net" and free-range. All those will be on the same Collision Layer.
The nore detail and surface divisions you can tolerate making, the more dynamic control you have, and can scale each division by 10s or 20s so they bend and curve nore realistically.
A little teaser on what's coming up for you guys
The simulated hair is from Genesis 2
Looks good!
Can you also do a version with tails instead. See pics for ideas. (there are also threads with more idea... search for twintails, pigtails, braids etc)
I will try that! The thing with tails is that I hope dForce can recognize them, not exploding them straight away
Daz3D IS supporting this application!!! Please keep in mind that dForce is new. It is a physics engine, not a dynamic cloth engine and the doing dynamic cloth was phase one. It is Daz3D's desire to expand it for use with hair and soft body but this cannot be done at once and it all takes time. I imagine dForce will change a lot over the course of time.
That's nice to hear. That was indeed my understanding from the dForce "Start here" thread, however, the devs/help desk seemed to pour cold water on the idea pretty quickly. Maybe they were just keen to point out that Hair was not supported "at the moment", rather than "at all, ever". We will wait to see how it goes. In the meantime, there are some pretty skilled PAs, so we will see what they can come up with.
dForce handles shets of polygons. Sure, a lot of hair is modelled with layers of polygons but that kind of hair is going to have limited drapability, and may well be made with layers that cross. Not supporting it may reflect that results, even in principle, could be very poor and woudl certainly not be as close to real as with clothes.
Well currently it is not supported, but I'm sure DAZ will bring something up in the future, just a question of when...
I can imagine it is so much harder to deal with hair than cloth, given the amount of strand mesh they have to work with, so it wouldn't be surprsing if it is going to take them another year to patch dforce to work with hair...
I did a version with tail, by the way, I posted on my main thread in the common's but forgot to tell you here :)
Just a before and after image of simulation at work
That test result is good to see. I really like OOT hair, espesically the Sporty ponytail hair.
May have to give it a go. Any tips?
ps, you can catch me in PA chat if you want to keep it under wraps atm.
Hmm I think the best tips I can give you is to paint EVERYTHING that are not supposed to move Grey/Blue in weightmapping, especially the tail joint (the ties or other decorations) Simulating single frame with "memorized pose" off tends to be the best way so far, and keep your eyes on the simulation as it go, turn it off when it has any sign of explosion
saves many, many computer restarts lol
I have to say kudos to OOT for making great long hair, as long hair with decorations and tails are the easiest to fail in dforce engine so far, even a perfect map can't save some of them. That's why I'm surprised, and really happy that it works with the long OOT hair, and a few others
And don't worry about the secrecy and stuff, it is very much possible that I will release my set out for free, so everyone can get started on hair simulations
Thank you very much for the tip EcVh0!
No problem! Hope the tip is somehow useful haha!
I'm trying to apply Dforce to the new Louise hair, but I have no idea where to even begin!