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DAZ please Belle 8 please

IsazformsIsazforms Posts: 210
in Product Suggestions

I am expecting Aiko 8 and Lilith 8, but the one I would like to see updated is Belle 8. Please DAZ, do not fix it if it is not broken. Just update it and do not try to make it look "more real" like you did with Olympia 8 or Teen Josie 8 that would turn her into others (ugly version). I clarify, I am not interested in the controversy, it is my opinion only.

Comments

  • IsaacNewtonIsaacNewton Posts: 1,300

    I have also noticed that base versions of characters in the female 8 series seem to be made, well ugly would be too strong a word, "Plain Jane" would be a better description. Perhaps the faces are made more masculine for some reason I cannot fathom. Stephanie 8 is a good example; oh my what a chin! That chin would look good on a "GI Joe". The more traditionally feminine and beautiful characters like Adelaide and Xanthe for S8 come later. You have a good argument that if a base character is named after an earlier series base character, as in your request for Belle 8, that character should look substantially the same as the earlier series character. Belle 8 should look very similar to Belle 7 etc. Why else would you give them the same root name?

    I would also ask the question why do we have to have new characters based on other characters at all? Why can't each character be standalone? There is no technical reason when the base character is made by DAZ3d itself. For all other PAs the base character is the base Genesis figure. Please correct me if you know that this is not so. Personally I can only think of marketing reasons; ways to increase sales. Buy two to get one?

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 11,691
    IsaacNewton said:

    You have a good argument that if a base character is named after an earlier series base character, as in your request for Belle 8, that character should look substantially the same as the earlier series character. Belle 8 should look very similar to Belle 7 etc. Why else would you give them the same root name?

    The named characters series are basically characters illustrating a given concept / style (anime for Aiko, stylized pinup for The Girl, and so on), so they can be quite different even if they share the same series name.

    PAs will sometime use one of the named character as part of their characters as it's closer to what they intend to create than the default genesis base, so it saves them time.

  • CherubitCherubit Posts: 994

    Belle 8 heart

    She has the best G2F skin. Has anyone managed to find a way to transform her UVs into G3F?

  • IsazformsIsazforms Posts: 210
    edited October 2017

    Names do not design abstract concepts in reality, but rather specific characters, which have several versions, which are recognizable as part of a series. Victoria 7 is similar to Victoria 6, in fact with a few adjustments Victoria 7 is almost identical to Victoria 6. That is for the morphs, for the skin does not apply. What I want to say is that DAZ in its eagerness to make the new characters more realistic does not leave them unrecognizable or in my opinion (my opinion is strong) ugly. For DAZ and for many artists more realistic is synonymous with more ugly details, which should not necessarily be so.

    Post edited by Isazforms on
  • IsaacNewtonIsaacNewton Posts: 1,300
    Leana said:
    IsaacNewton said:

    You have a good argument that if a base character is named after an earlier series base character, as in your request for Belle 8, that character should look substantially the same as the earlier series character. Belle 8 should look very similar to Belle 7 etc. Why else would you give them the same root name?

    The named characters series are basically characters illustrating a given concept / style (anime for Aiko, stylized pinup for The Girl, and so on), so they can be quite different even if they share the same series name.

    PAs will sometime use one of the named character as part of their characters as it's closer to what they intend to create than the default genesis base, so it saves them time.

    Perhaps the notion of stereotypes was originally the idea. Certainly Victoria has remained somewhat similar, throughout the various generations. Aiko and The Girl are clearly different styles but now there are dozens of "6s" and "7s" (and "8s" to come) which actually don't look very similar to their coresponding predecessors. In many cases it is very UNclear what is "specific" concerning one "7" over another. Perhaps DAZ3d would care to clarify this?

    Further, are you suggesting that PAs are so lazy or unskilled that they need to base their figures on a specific "6" or "7"; forcing their clients (us!) to have to buy a second character to get theirs? I doubt it. Consider Xanthe for Stephanie 8, are you seriously suggesting it was easier to get to her face from Stephanie 8 than it would have been to start from G8f base? Again, I doubt it.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 11,691
    IsaacNewton said:

    Further, are you suggesting that PAs are so lazy or unskilled that they need to base their figures on a specific "6" or "7"; forcing their clients (us!) to have to buy a second character to get theirs? I doubt it.

    No, I'm suggesting that PAs use the various tools DAZ gave them, just like everybody else. There's no point in reinventing the wheel every time.

    Besides, starting from an official base shape also helps with add-ons: a lot of clothes and hairs have custom morphs to support the official base shapes, so auto-morphing only needs to account for the "delta" between the base and your character rather than for the full custom morph, so you'll usually get better results.

     

    And of course characters relased with a new base character will use it, they're supposed to encourage you to buy the new shape....

  • IsazformsIsazforms Posts: 210

    Are you saying that Aiko 7 does not look like Aiko 6? Aiko 7 is exactly like an Aiko 6 passed by the gen 3 figure style. ????????????

  • IsaacNewtonIsaacNewton Posts: 1,300
    Leana said:
    IsaacNewton said:

    Further, are you suggesting that PAs are so lazy or unskilled that they need to base their figures on a specific "6" or "7"; forcing their clients (us!) to have to buy a second character to get theirs? I doubt it.

    No, I'm suggesting that PAs use the various tools DAZ gave them, just like everybody else. There's no point in reinventing the wheel every time.

    Besides, starting from an official base shape also helps with add-ons: a lot of clothes and hairs have custom morphs to support the official base shapes, so auto-morphing only needs to account for the "delta" between the base and your character rather than for the full custom morph, so you'll usually get better results.

     

    And of course characters relased with a new base character will use it, they're supposed to encourage you to buy the new shape....

    We are not talking about reinventing anything, we are talking about morphing from character A or B to character C, where character C doesn't look like either A or B. However, chosing A or B may involve the buyer requiring to buy an extra character. Why would a PA do that?

    As for the argument about being able to use addons specific to the new Base character as oposed to the original Base character; if there were no, or very few Base characters then this would be substantially less of a problem. Instead we see new Base characters released regularly which just makes the problem even worse. Your last comment seems to sum it up... "they're supposed to encourage you to buy the new shape..." It does seem to be mainly a marketing method these days.

     

    Isazforms said:

    Are you saying that Aiko 7 does not look like Aiko 6? Aiko 7 is exactly like an Aiko 6 passed by the gen 3 figure style. ????????????

    Not sure who you are directing this comment at, however, I agree that Aiko 6 and 7 look very similar. Aiko is one of the few cases where a new Base is warranted on the basis that Aiko is so stereotypically an anime character. However, that argument does not appear to work with many, if not most, of the other new Base figures. Naturally the choice to make new Base characters belongs to DAZ3d; I just wonder ... why?

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 11,691
    Isazforms said:

    Are you saying that Aiko 7 does not look like Aiko 6? Aiko 7 is exactly like an Aiko 6 passed by the gen 3 figure style. ????????????

    Aiko 7 is similar in style to Aiko 6, but doesn't look like Aiko 3 or 4 at all for example.

    IsaacNewton said:

    As for the argument about being able to use addons specific to the new Base character as oposed to the original Base character; if there were no, or very few Base characters then this would be substantially less of a problem.

    If there were less bases there would be less custom morphs to support them, and so everything would rely on auto-morphing. I don't see how that would be "substantially less of a problem"....

  • AtanaciusAtanacius Posts: 333
    IsaacNewton said:
    Leana said:
    IsaacNewton said:

    You have a good argument that if a base character is named after an earlier series base character, as in your request for Belle 8, that character should look substantially the same as the earlier series character. Belle 8 should look very similar to Belle 7 etc. Why else would you give them the same root name?

    The named characters series are basically characters illustrating a given concept / style (anime for Aiko, stylized pinup for The Girl, and so on), so they can be quite different even if they share the same series name.

    PAs will sometime use one of the named character as part of their characters as it's closer to what they intend to create than the default genesis base, so it saves them time.

    Perhaps the notion of stereotypes was originally the idea. Certainly Victoria has remained somewhat similar, throughout the various generations. Aiko and The Girl are clearly different styles but now there are dozens of "6s" and "7s" (and "8s" to come) which actually don't look very similar to their coresponding predecessors. In many cases it is very UNclear what is "specific" concerning one "7" over another. Perhaps DAZ3d would care to clarify this?

    Further, are you suggesting that PAs are so lazy or unskilled that they need to base their figures on a specific "6" or "7"; forcing their clients (us!) to have to buy a second character to get theirs? I doubt it. Consider Xanthe for Stephanie 8, are you seriously suggesting it was easier to get to her face from Stephanie 8 than it would have been to start from G8f base? Again, I doubt it.

    Xanthe is not really using a lot Stephanie 8. It use only 5% of her.. Look the Stephanie 8 thread for more clarifications.
  • IsaacNewtonIsaacNewton Posts: 1,300
    Atanacius said:
    IsaacNewton said:
    Leana said:
    IsaacNewton said:

    You have a good argument that if a base character is named after an earlier series base character, as in your request for Belle 8, that character should look substantially the same as the earlier series character. Belle 8 should look very similar to Belle 7 etc. Why else would you give them the same root name?

    The named characters series are basically characters illustrating a given concept / style (anime for Aiko, stylized pinup for The Girl, and so on), so they can be quite different even if they share the same series name.

    PAs will sometime use one of the named character as part of their characters as it's closer to what they intend to create than the default genesis base, so it saves them time.

    Perhaps the notion of stereotypes was originally the idea. Certainly Victoria has remained somewhat similar, throughout the various generations. Aiko and The Girl are clearly different styles but now there are dozens of "6s" and "7s" (and "8s" to come) which actually don't look very similar to their coresponding predecessors. In many cases it is very UNclear what is "specific" concerning one "7" over another. Perhaps DAZ3d would care to clarify this?

    Further, are you suggesting that PAs are so lazy or unskilled that they need to base their figures on a specific "6" or "7"; forcing their clients (us!) to have to buy a second character to get theirs? I doubt it. Consider Xanthe for Stephanie 8, are you seriously suggesting it was easier to get to her face from Stephanie 8 than it would have been to start from G8f base? Again, I doubt it.

     

    Xanthe is not really using a lot Stephanie 8. It use only 5% of her.. Look the Stephanie 8 thread for more clarifications.

    Thank you Atanacius, you make my point exactly. Xanthe is a character which does not really need to be based on Stephanie 8.

    The original poster asked for Belle 8. I wonder if a character very much like Belle 7 were to be released, obviously using G8f as the base, but not as a new Base character in itself, just a separate character, would he not be happy? I suspect so. Me too.

  • IsazformsIsazforms Posts: 210

    I am not creator of content, but from my point of view use the morphs having a base morph other than gen 8 if it helps me to make variations. Many faces I made are based on Belle 6 and I do not see how to make them from gen 2 female.

    I did not argue about that, when I referred to the series of characters. Obviously Aiko 6 will be more similar to Aiko 7 than Aiko 5, precisely because they are series, the numbers 1 and 2 are together and the number 1 has more distance between 4 than 3. Obviously

  • fixmypcmikefixmypcmike Posts: 19,583
    Isazforms said:


    I did not argue about that, when I referred to the series of characters. Obviously Aiko 6 will be more similar to Aiko 7 than Aiko 5, precisely because they are series, the numbers 1 and 2 are together and the number 1 has more distance between 4 than 3. Obviously

    I don't think this is so -- different generations of Aiko have used different anime styles, but there's no progression to it -- Aiko 5 is not "between" 4 and 6 stylistically.

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