Fitting issues with Way of the Samurai
kyoto kid
Posts: 41,108
...finally picked up Way of the Samurai which was on my wishlist. during MM. As it is designed for Genesis, I figured it should work well for my namesake (which is why I purchased it). OK so she is 4'11 but built like a very athletic gymnast.
When I applied the various pieces, I noticed the fits were not as "tight" as other genesis clothing. Part of the embroidered symbols on the Haori disappeared" (only half was showing. The Hakama did not fit tight to her waist, which created issues with the Himo. Finally the Happi not only didn't move right when posing but had a pokethrough issue on the upper left chest just under the embroidered symbol that would not go away no matter what I did.
When I went into the Parameters tab for the Haori, Hakama, Himo, and Happi, there were no morph. fitting, or correction sliders, only a couple that related to Z-Brush (which I do not have). Is there something that I am missing? Part of the file that didn't download or install correctly? Something just feels "incomplete" with this. It is a beautiful set, and rather spendy to be so limited and not take full advantage of Genesis' capabilities.
I am within the thirty day limit to return it but would like to find a solution as I really waited for MM to get this.
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Comments
No, it really doesn't have any adjusters. I bought it on sale a long time ago and was disappointed, too.
I loaded the items in question on a Aiko 5 shape and these are my observations:
1. The Hakama loads with a loose waist to allow the Haori to be tucked in. The Hakama has a "No Haori" morph in Morphs group to close the gap if needed. The ZBrush group contains two morph sliders that were made in ZBrush. Although they have parameter dials, they appear to be invoked depending on the Genesis pose. The ZBrush is just a label that the morphs were made in ZBrush.
2. The smoothing modifier is causing the partial disappearance of the symbol. Turn off smoothing in the Parameter tab for the Haori and the symbols appear in full.
2. The poke through on the Happi coat can be eliminated by setting the to Collision Item to Haori in the Happi coat's Parameter tab. Adjust the Smoothing and Collision Iterations as needed to eliminate the poke through. I also turned off Smoothing of the Happi coat too.
...I tried adjusting the collision factor but the pokethough did not go away. I can't believe for the price of this item that there were no fitting morphs provided and that it is incompatible with the full range of genesis physiques. The fact that only Z-Brush adjustments were provided should have been addressed in the product description as well as the fact this would not work with female body shapes. This vendor usually provides such nice content. I feel they dropped the ball on this one.
Sadly, I will have to uninstall and get a refund for this.
..don't even know what that is. I know nothing about scripting morphs.
I already entered a sales support ticket for a refund of this as well as Yuriko Hair and Geishas for Aiko 5 as neither perform the way I expected them to based on the promo pics. A very big disappointment to say the least.
...too late now, the ticket has already been posted and the items uninstalled and deleted.
The Push Modifier is just a modifier - apply it from the menu, set an offset in cm, done.
Having to change the collision item with overlapping clothing sets is not uncommon - a lot of the layered sets in the Platinum Club work the same way.
I'm not suggesting that you were wrong to ask for a refund if the set didn't suit you, of course, but if you are going to find fault with an item the criticism should reflect the way the application and content work.
In the Properties tab in my version, the pieces have these morphs:
Female:
FBMBasicFemale
FBMVictoria5
FBMVictoria5Sprmdl
Male:
FBMFreak4
FBMDavid3 (and several named morphs of his)
FBMMichael5 (And smooth and Hero)
FBMMichael4
FBMHiro4
This is more than is listed in the product page (which is none).
The breast area does not look right on the A5 picture shown. On the other hand, the original promotional material in no way claims ANY kind of female support, and shows the outfit literally only on the supported male morphs. If we buy an outfit to use on a female under those conditions we have no one to blame but ourselves (and I say WE because I did it, too).
I'm not saying don't get a refund, I'm saying next time, don't buy it if you don't see the FBM you want literally right there on the morph list, and don't assume there are layering fixits when they're not listed either.
...Didn't see any fitting morphs in the properties tab at all. All I could find were a Z-brush and one other slider in the parameters tab for the various pieces.
Again I spent a good amount of time adjusting the collision and smoothing settings as well as the Transfer Tool and nothing worked to eliminate the pokethrough or create a tighter fit between the Haori and Hakama to the character shape.
In my experience, most Genesis clothing content works well on either gender shape even when not specified in the product description. This is the first time I encountered such an issue. I've cross dressed Genesis characters time and time again with no trouble, even using Toon character clothing on realistic characters. I've also had good success cross dressing Genesis characters with Gen 4 clothing through GenX.
The character I was fitting it to was also not as "well endowed" as the standard Genesis Female, V5 or A5, well as being more "athletic".
I used a percentage of the male Body Builder, Bulk, Tone,as well as the general Chest Depth, Chest Width, Rib Cage Volume, and Shoulder Volume morphs (as there is no SF5 yet) For her Breasts I used the Julie 3, V5 Breasts Under Curve, and Breasts Small morphs to give her more of a well developed Gymnast's physique. So again I do not understand why there should have been any problems with the upper body or waist/hips fits.
I guess my contention (based on past experience) is if this were intended primarily for the Genesis male body shapes, it should have been mentioned in the description. There have also been issues with product pages not always showing complete information whether due to store software issues or accidental omission (which has happened on occasion), so the fact that no morphs were listed didn't necessarily reflect the fact that they really were not included.
Apologies for my comment about dropping the ball as I was very very frustrated last night since I never came across such nicely detailed clothing content that didn't include a full set of morph, fitting, movement, and fix sliders. I added this to my wishlist when it came out as I really wanted it for my character this is why I was so disappointed.
I still think you jumped the gun in retuning it without exhausting every other option, when the solution was probably something very simple. But that's just me.
...I spent a better part of the evening trying everything I knew of. Again, without the fitting morphs that were supposed to be in the parameters tab I had nothing at all to work with. Maybe it was corrupted in some way, I don't know, but struggling as much as I did with no adjustment, fit or movement morphs to help the situation just seemed like a losing proposition and decided it best to cut my losses while I was still in the 30 day window. I'm on a tight budget and to pay what I did, (even on sale) for this just was not worth the trouble. It wouldn't even follow the poses I used well (and they were not extreme ones). At one point I even looked at the file again to make sure it wasn't dynamic as I understand Daz/Optitex dynamic clothing does not take to scaling very well.
I've done a lot of manual tweaking of fits in the past (used CrossDresser a lot) but this just seemed to defy any possible solution I could come up with. It was as if it was proportioned for one type of figure. I ran into this years ago with Hongyu's Setsuko's School Girl for A4. Being that A4 was a morph form of V4 I thought it would work with Vicky but could not eliminate a lot of pokethrough in the abdomen, upper back, and shoulder areas as it was specifically fitted for the base A4 shape.
That's asking a bit much for a product that costs in the $18 range on sale. If you have to do that much workup and it's not for a project that's going to make you significant money on its own, heck yeah, I'd return it (even if it's one of mine!).
...actually had it for a couple days. just that the other evening was the most time I spent trying to get it to work properly. As to the "hastiness" of the decision, I was recently laid off from my job and felt that it was better to cut my losses and use the credit for content I also wanted that I knew would go back on sale during the Ketchup round which I could and would more readily use with little trouble.
While I have Hexagon (purchased during an MM sale several years ago) I no longer use it because it is just too unstable as it simply freezes up without warning (requiring going into Windows Task Manager to kill the process and everything done up to the last "save" I've even had it hang up during the save process). Basically that was 50$+ wasted. Hence my modelling skills at this point never progressed beyond using primitives. I am beginning to learn Bledner but as you may understand it is a slow go due to the fact it is a professional grade application with a lot of powerful features and options. So, it will be a while before I am skilled enough to make adjustments to existing meshes and rigging (which I still don't understand concerning Genesis). I also have no idea of how to script morphs in either Daz's scripting language or Python (Poser).
This is the first clothing content I purchased that did not include any morphs whatsoever and would not fit properly to the Genesis figure I outlined above which led me to feel I would be better off designing something similar in Marvelous Designer (which I already have) as a scalable dynamic set when I am skilled enough.
As to the props, I already have Merlin's beautiful Katana, Wakasashi, and Tanto, as well as the weapon set from Immortal Ronin and a number of nice Freebie ones.