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  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    holly wetcircuit said:
    There is no Carrara development team on payroll right now. We have no Carrara manager that I know of...

    Statements like this have been made repeatedly - near as I can tell, they are always speculation. Did I miss an announcement from DAZ that revealed their payroll roster?

    I think the likely scenario is that there is a small group of devs that have to divide their time between advancing the products (clearly the bulk of the time here has been D|S and Genesis) and supporting their internal I.T. stuff (i.e. these forums). As such, Carrara just doesn't get the love we wish it did.

  • wetcircuitwetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    holly wetcircuit said:
    There is no Carrara development team on payroll right now. We have no Carrara manager that I know of...

    Statements like this have been made repeatedly - near as I can tell, they are always speculation. Did I miss an announcement from DAZ that revealed their payroll roster?

    I think the likely scenario is that there is a small group of devs that have to divide their time between advancing the products (clearly the bulk of the time here has been D|S and Genesis) and supporting their internal I.T. stuff (i.e. these forums). As such, Carrara just doesn't get the love we wish it did.
    Sorry, I meant to say DEDICATED developers... As in, people hired just for Carrara, project managers for Carrara, etc.

    Payroll or not, can you name anyone who *IS* the Carrara project manager?

  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,643
    edited February 2013

    The biggest positive sign lately is that Carrara 8 Pro is showcased in their Top 10 sold in January.

    TopTenOfJanuary2013.jpg
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    Post edited by Kevin Sanderson on
  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    holly wetcircuit said:
    Sorry, I meant to say DEDICATED developers... As in, people hired just for Carrara, project managers for Carrara, etc.

    Payroll or not, can you name anyone who *IS* the Carrara project manager?

    Now we're talking! Sure, DAZ isn't Microsoft when it comes to development. Heck, even a team of one person wouldn't be bad...

  • 3dView3dView Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Its always an interesting game with Daz and Carrara . We never know for sure whats going to happen. You know if there was no Genesis -----I wonder if we would have seen more pure Carrara improvements or not. With a Genesis --they seemed compelled to make it work well for Carrara and so it dragged out everything.
    Hopefully we hear something soon and hopefully its good. I also am having doubts about a 8.5 --I think its going to be 9 next ----genesis and some other goodies. Just my guess. I know nothing.

  • wetcircuitwetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited February 2013

    *self edited...*

    Post edited by wetcircuit on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,570
    edited February 2013

    Kinda cool though, isn't it? Daz3d is very much unmatched in making the best versatile, morphable doll-type figures anywhere...
    And Genesis just blows away what they've done before - and Gen 4 is still better than what anyone else has come up with.*
    *Disclaimer - talking, of course, about the vast marketplace - not individual or in-house use only projects

    bg_genesis_lineup_01.jpg
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    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • carfor-2225296carfor-2225296 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck --At least the last few builds of the beta give us an excellent 3d authoring suite.
    I'm lovin' it

    well sir, your attitude is certainly a welcome breath of fresh air for a new carrara user.

    I wish you could channel this over to the beginning daz members. Are they in fact " loving"
    that software, or would they be much happier here!?

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,570
    edited December 1969

    Well, and then there's our very own Toons collection from 3D Universe

    jasmin-for-genesis-bundle-large.jpg
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  • wetcircuitwetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    carfor said:
    Dartanbeck --At least the last few builds of the beta give us an excellent 3d authoring suite.
    I'm lovin' it

    well sir, your attitude is certainly a welcome breath of fresh air for a new carrara user.

    I wish you could channel this over to the beginning daz members. Are they in fact " loving"
    that software, or would they be much happier here!?


    LOL!

    I think Carrara is the easiest to learn 3D suite.... Maybe because it is the one I learned on...

    I would still like to quite my job(s) and just make fun beginner tutorials for Carrara all day... That's why I started my Carrara site, but you know... time... life... etc...

    Dartanbeck for Club Leader!!!

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    holly wetcircuit said:
    I would still like to quite my job(s) and just make fun beginner tutorials for Carrara all day... That's why I started my Carrara site, but you know... time... life... etc...

    Dartanbeck for Club Leader!!!

    I hear ya! I dream of this constantly.

    Microsoft has its MVP (Most Valuable Professional) Program -- people are community nominated and then evaluated by Microsoft for the award. Most products have their family of respected MVPs. Without a doubt, Dartanbeck would be an MVP for Carrara.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,570
    edited December 1969

    carfor said:
    Dartanbeck --At least the last few builds of the beta give us an excellent 3d authoring suite.
    I'm lovin' it

    well sir, your attitude is certainly a welcome breath of fresh air for a new carrara user.

    I wish you could channel this over to the beginning daz members. Are they in fact " loving"
    that software, or would they be much happier here!?Man, I guess the Software Bundle offer is over, huh. Bryce and Hex aren't FREE anymore, but they sure are affordable.
    Have you tried Daz Studio 4.5 Pro?
    (I take it that's what you're referring to?)
    I feel all warm and fuzzy about that one too. Here's the thing. If I didn't (or couldn't) have Carrara Pro, I'd be loving the Daz3d Professional Artist and Developer Software Suite. I'd use the threesome as my Carrara. Use the bridges to cruize between them - using whichever as the app of choice for what I was working on. The big drawback for me, as far as I can tell right now, would be the lack of Carrara's Renders.
    DS and Bryce have both proven their worth in that department - no worries on that end... but I love Carrara's Ray Tracing speed. I have yet to try out Bryce, but after a few short conversations with David Brinnen and I'm on track to get into it and finally check it out.
    Personally, I believe Daz3d to have the sweet lineup of choice 3d Art software right now. They have a huge right to be proud!

    Daz3d Professional Artist and Developer Software Suite
    Bryce 7 Pro Daz Studio 4.5 Pro Hexagon 2.5

    Check out the New Daz3d Install Manager - It Totally R O C K S !
    Daz Forums Software Discussion Field Trip
    See the Daz3d Carrara 8 Promo Reel

    Cripeman's dedication to Frank Frazetta
    Where he links to a feature-length special on the artist himself:
    Frank Frazetta - Painting with Fire

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,570
    edited December 1969

    And then Daz3d Store also has this super-crazy awesome editing software as well:

    Project Dogwaffle
    PD Pro Howler is fast digital painting and animation software created by an artist for hobbyists and professionals alike.
    This link takes you to a thread I began while considering to add this software to my work flow. Within the thread are many links to tutorials and plugins for the software - as well as the Purchase Page at Daz3d and to the PD Official Site.
    MAIN FEATURES
    * Paint features * Animation features * Filters and Special FX
    Many Available Plugins and Tutorials
    Direct Focus Toward the Creation and Editing of Animated Scenes
  • carfor-2225296carfor-2225296 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Man, I guess the Software Bundle offer is over, huh. Bryce and Hex aren't FREE anymore, but they sure are affordable.
    Have you tried Daz Studio 4.5 Pro?
    (I take it that's what you're referring to?)

    well, yes, Daz Studio 4 --- I didnt get too deep into it. I was never crazy about the interface, but beyond that I knew it was starter
    software, and I wouldn't be able to grow too far with it.

    I used to own Bryce way back when. Fun stuff! The problem is it always looked like a "Bryce" render. Whereas Terragen and
    Vue I think are more realistic. I gather Bryce may be on the "death march" as well ? - lol

  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,643
    edited February 2013

    carfor said:
    Man, I guess the Software Bundle offer is over, huh. Bryce and Hex aren't FREE anymore, but they sure are affordable.
    Have you tried Daz Studio 4.5 Pro?
    (I take it that's what you're referring to?)

    well, yes, Daz Studio 4 --- I didnt get too deep into it. I was never crazy about the interface, but beyond that I knew it was starter
    software, and I wouldn't be able to grow too far with it.

    I used to own Bryce way back when. Fun stuff! The problem is it always looked like a "Bryce" render. Whereas Terragen and
    Vue I think are more realistic. I gather Bryce may be on the "death march" as well ? - lol

    Bryce was rumored dead for the longest time and there was much gnashing of teeth, wailing and tearing of clothes.. and then DAZ surprised everyone with a new version and features.

    Lesson to be learned? DAZ only reveals info and new software/products when they can. They don't tease forever and "DAZ soon" is long gone... maybe another reason we never hear anything. Everyone always complained about "DAZ soon"... maybe the new management took that to heart. See what happens when you complain - unintended consequences ... like not getting any news.

    There was another thread recently where I posted a link to a blog or whatever where it was pointed out that Carrara has been thought to be dead or dying ever since it came out! Must be the mindset of some Carrara fans.

    Post edited by Kevin Sanderson on
  • carfor-2225296carfor-2225296 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Kevin Sanderson"

    Bryce was rumored dead for the longest time and there was much gnashing of teeth, wailing and tearing of clothes.. and then DAZ surprised everyone with a new version and features.

    Lesson to be learned? DAZ only reveals info and new software/products when they can. They don't tease forever and "DAZ soon" is long gone... maybe another reason we never hear anything. Everyone always complained about "DAZ soon"... maybe the new management took that to heart. See what happens when you complain - unintended consequences ... like not getting any news.

    There was another thread recently where I posted a link to a blog or whatever where it was pointed out that Carrara has been thought to be dead or dying ever since it came out! Must be the mindset of some Carrara fans.

    Interesting, does the new version of Bryce have the same render and look? I thought that was its weakness. Same with Carrara also.
    I mean I'm new to Carrara and I SEE it can do very good renders.

    The problem is in Carrara Galleries / youtube, etc, the GOOD Carrara Renders { my opinion} are less than 5 %. The others look
    like 3d from the 1990's.

    I know the Reality 2 Man said he wouldn't develop for Carrara, and is busy making Reality 3 for POSER! Ugh. I think he
    said the Carrara SDK? wasn't plugin friendly, or something?. But how come we have so many plugins from Fenric , etc??

    I think OCTANE, and VRAY etc are desperately needed to revive the Carrara reputation. If you don't have the renderer's PROS are
    used to using --- they wont even know you exist!!

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,570
    edited December 1969

    carfor said:
    I knew it was starter software, and I wouldn't be able to grow too far with it.

    Perhaps. But it contains so many valuable tools for a Daz3d Published Artist that it's impossible to ignore - or consider it to be unnecessary. With the CCT now built in, it's a powerhaus! There was all of this discussion regarding ways of using Modo and Zbrush for making morphs and adding morphs to genesis clothes and such. One of us stepped in all innocent like, it was so funny. "What about Hexagon and its bridge to D|S?"
    Age of Armor was like, oh man, yeah! I'll be back! It was just cool! Well, he's a really cool guy! But so many people write these apps off as junk or something just because they're cheap or free. Their really only cheap and free because Daz3d allows them to be. They want their family of friends (I don't really know the new CEO that much yet, but Dan Farr always took it to heart when customers wanted something that they couldn't have - or didn't like what was going on. He considers all of us, the customers and forum members, his friends) to have the tools they need. It's not just good for business, it's just good sense. They have the power to do it, so they do - and smile about it!
    I love Daz3d!
    Hexagon is a formidable modeler. I feel that way about Carrara, too. D|S has some incredible tools under its hood and I can't wait to see what kind of beauty I can get Bryce 7 pro to give me. I may be no expert, but I have a talent for seeing beyond the norm.
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,570
    edited December 1969

    He was talking about when they released Bryce 7 Pro

    carfor said:

    I know the Reality 2 Man said he wouldn't develop for Carrara, and is busy making Reality 3 for POSER! Ugh. I think he
    said the Carrara SDK? wasn't plugin friendly, or something?. But how come we have so many plugins from Fenric , etc??

    I think OCTANE, and VRAY etc are desperately needed to revive the Carrara reputation. If you don't have the renderer's PROS are
    used to using --- they wont even know you exist!!

    Fenric told us why, and it's nothing that can be overcome without developmental assistance from within. Plugin Writers are simply not allowed into the render engine. Carrara can produce when it comes to rendering. But some upgrading would certainly be a welcome addition. It won't bother me if it never changes, though. I love the Carrara render engine!
  • carfor-2225296carfor-2225296 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:
    carfor said:
    I knew it was starter software, and I wouldn't be able to grow too far with it.

    Perhaps. But it contains so many valuable tools for a Daz3d Published Artist that it's impossible to ignore - or consider it to be unnecessary. With the CCT now built in, it's a powerhaus! .........................

    well, Daz is ok by me. Fact is I'm learning Carrara BUT, I'm using Daz more for projects: Im just hoping for that Pro rendering
    BOOST I just talked about.

    { cause Daz ALREADY has Reality 2, Cycles [bridge], and OCTANE {beta} !!! that is blowing CARRARA Away!!! } good bye Carrara!

  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,643
    edited February 2013

    Getting some of David Brinnen's stuff in the store helps make Bryce look pretty good, but all software has that older look if you don't use current lighting techniques. I think the reason many samples of work look like the old 3D style is because the creators of those pieces of art haven't figured out lighting. But if you know what you are doing, you can make very nice looking renders in Carrara. It takes time to figure it out. Many that do, end up selling what they know in the form of plugins. The rest seem to get real busy with other stuff.

    Here's one from DimensionTheory that looks as good as anything I've seen out of Reality/Lux/Render:

    http://carraracafe.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/BreakfastFinal.jpg

    Paolo also had issues with DAZ as he didn't know what was changing in the software and has since pulled out of their store. And it seems the smaller Carrara user base that actually purchases content had him wary as it would take a long time to code it, etc. and he wouldn't see the return on his investment of time and work. There weren't many saying they'd buy it when he posted a poll. He works on his Reality plugin as his main occupation and money maker. It took saveral months to get it working for Poser and that was with the cooperation of Smith Micro. So he has memories of this taking a long time to do as it also did for Studio.

    One of the guys working on a DAZ Studio plugin for Octane, not the official one that Otoy is also working on, but the freebie, was hoping to make one for Carrara. You can already export a Carrara scene as an OBJ file and use it in Octane - Andy (3dage) did that early on. I still don't think they've got object motion blur completely licked yet, so even if they did have a plugin that was interfaced in Carrara, it still would lack some things that are needed for animation use. No matter what render engine you would get, though, you will still have to adjust the shaders to get it to work. Paolo had his success with Reality for Studio because he did all the hard work converting the Studio shaders to something Lux could approximate. That's the problem with render engines - no two talk the same shaders. They are all unique.

    Post edited by Kevin Sanderson on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,570
    edited December 1969

    carfor said:
    { cause Daz ALREADY has Reality 2, Cycles [bridge], and OCTANE {beta} !!! that is blowing CARRARA Away!!! } good bye Carrara!
    LOL
    To each his/her own, I guess. :ahhh:
  • carfor-2225296carfor-2225296 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:
    carfor said:
    { cause Daz ALREADY has Reality 2, Cycles [bridge], and OCTANE {beta} !!! that is blowing CARRARA Away!!! } good bye Carrara!
    LOL
    To each his/her own, I guess. :ahhh:

    seriously? have you tried ANY of those 3?

    They happen to be the TOP rendering engines in the Industry right now.
    Yep, all three.

  • wetcircuitwetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited February 2013

    So for Carrara9 (or whatever) based on some of what Fenric has said... we should be demanding SDK "hooks" into the renderer engine for 32bit, etc?

    Personally I love Carrara's renderer so I am not looking to move to other render engines.... I'd probably prefer to have better (deeper bitrate) control for Carrara.

    Post edited by wetcircuit on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,570
    edited December 1969

    Kevin Sanderson said:
    Getting some of David Brinnen's stuff in the store helps make Bryce look pretty good, but all software has that older look if you don't use current lighting techniques. I think the reason many samples of work look like the old 3D style is because the creators of those pieces of art haven't figured out lighting. But if you know what you are doing, you can make very nice looking renders in Carrara. It takes time to figure it out. Many that do, end up selling what they know in the form of plugins. The rest seem to get real busy with other stuff.

    Paolo also had issues with DAZ as he didn't know what was changing in the software and has since pulled out of their store. And it seems the smaller Carrara user base that actually purchases content had him wary as it would take a long time to code it, etc. and he wouldn't see the return on his investment of time and work. There weren't many saying they'd buy it when he posted a poll. He works on his Reality plugin as his main occupation and money maker. It took saveral months to get it working for Poser and that was with the cooperation of Smith Micro. So he has memories of this taking a long time to do as it also did for Studio.

    One of the guys working on a DAZ Studio plugin for Octane, not the official one that Otoy is also working on, but the freebie, was hoping to make one for Carrara. You can already export a Carrara scene as an OBJ file and use it in Octane - Andy (3dage) did that early on. I still don't think they've got object motion blur completely licked yet, so even if they did have a plugin that was interfaced in Carrara, it still would lack some things that are needed for animation use. No matter what render engine you would get, though, you will still have to adjust the shaders to get it to work. Paolo had his success with Reality for Studio because he did all the hard work converting the Studio shaders to something Lux could approximate. That's the problem with render engines - no two talk the same shaders. They are all unique.

    I agree, Kevin. I am going to be helping in that regard as well. I'm creating all sorts of new shaders and general presets to help Carrara users get a quicker idea of how they can get more realistic results using just a small percentage of the power the render engine actually has. It's all about optimizing. Shaders and lights are the factors. So with some nice new shaders, along with some preset scenes with lighting setups, shader options and a great render setting to get started with, Carrara owners will have a much easier time of it. Plus it'll give them some real examples to look at.
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,570
    edited December 1969

    holly wetcircuit said:
    So for Carrara9 (or whatever) based on some of what Fenric has said... we should be demanding SDK "hooks" into the renderer engine for 32bit, etc?
    If you want render engine optimization to be possible, yes.
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,570
    edited February 2013

    carfor said:
    Dartanbeck said:
    carfor said:
    { cause Daz ALREADY has Reality 2, Cycles [bridge], and OCTANE {beta} !!! that is blowing CARRARA Away!!! } good bye Carrara!
    LOL
    To each his/her own, I guess. :ahhh:

    seriously? have you tried ANY of those 3?

    They happen to be the TOP rendering engines in the Industry right now.
    Yep, all three.I know. But buying someone the actual paints that Picasso used isn't going to guarantee anything! lol
    I'm just really happy with Carrara is what I meant by that comment. I'd rather stick with my Carrara no matter what "The Times" say that I should do! But, as many times as people have tried to get me to try cocaine, I still haven't touched that either, so...

    Carrara rocks. That's my story. Sticking to my story = me %-P

    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • carfor-2225296carfor-2225296 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:
    holly wetcircuit said:
    So for Carrara9 (or whatever) based on some of what Fenric has said... we should be demanding SDK "hooks" into the renderer engine for 32bit, etc?
    If you want render engine optimization to be possible, yes.

    I vote for this.

    3dsmax, for example comes with 4+ onboard engines. { mental ray, scanline, quicksilver, iray, etc }

    Fair to good choices.

    but most people opt for optional vray, brazil, octane { great choices} to boost their workflow.

    Options = power! { everybodys happy}

  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,643
    edited December 1969

    carfor said:
    Dartanbeck said:
    holly wetcircuit said:
    So for Carrara9 (or whatever) based on some of what Fenric has said... we should be demanding SDK "hooks" into the renderer engine for 32bit, etc?
    If you want render engine optimization to be possible, yes.

    I vote for this.

    3dsmax, for example comes with 4+ onboard engines. { mental ray, scanline, quicksilver, iray, etc }

    Fair to good choices.

    but most people opt for optional vray, brazil, octane { great choices} to boost their workflow.

    Options = power! { everybodys happy}

    And you pay $3,500, too! Sheesh!

    Carrara already does well -- DT's render again:

    http://carraracafe.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/BreakfastFinal.jpg

    More samples of good Carrara renders that rival much that's out there:

    http://www.daz3d.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/y/dynamic-romance-hair-0.jpg

    http://www.daz3d.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/y/dynamic-romance-hair-large.jpg

    http://www.daz3d.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/y/dynamic-venus-hair-3.jpg

    http://www.daz3d.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/y/dynamic-edge-hair-large.jpg

  • carfor-2225296carfor-2225296 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    And you pay $3,500, too! Sheesh!

    Carrara already does well -- DT's render again:

    Kevin,

    those are very nice renders, those were the group I was talking about.

    But they all look like HDRI cheats to me.

    The new renderers are UNBIASED, or BIASED, more advanced, than the current
    carrara renderer. IMHO.

    I thought people wanted ideas for version 9? If you want to stay in version 8, so be it.

  • wetcircuitwetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Kevin Sanderson said:
    carfor said:
    holly wetcircuit said:
    So for Carrara9 (or whatever) based on some of what Fenric has said... we should be demanding SDK "hooks" into the renderer engine for 32bit, etc?

    I vote for this.

    3dsmax, for example comes with 4+ onboard engines. { mental ray, scanline, quicksilver, iray, etc }

    Fair to good choices.

    but most people opt for optional vray, brazil, octane { great choices} to boost their workflow.

    Options = power! { everybodys happy}

    And you pay $3,500, too! Sheesh!

    Carrara already does well
    Agree. I don't need other engines - for that I can export OBJ, etc....

    Carrara is already fantastic for the price. I want better access to Carrara's engine.... so for example we can export HDR backgrounds, animate exposure f-stops..., etc

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