Consistant crash on big animations with audio

Box8068_31c338ee4b

I have two carrara systems one i7 running 8.1 32 bit, win xp at home .
I get the same crash on both systems.
This is a reasonably complex animation. About two minutes long.
With audio voice over.
I find on both systems, if I scrub the audio, then play the animation, then stop.
every one in a while, when I hit stop a small bit of the audio loops maybe half second.
Then carrara freezes. Crash.
This has become very annoying because I have to save after almost every change or I risk losing my work.
I normally save frequently, maybe every 10 minutes- 15 minutes but this is getting pretty annoying.
Anybody see this? any thing I can turn off to keep this from happening until I render.
Thanks
8068

evilproducer

I seem to recall there was a limit to the length of an audio clip, but I don't know if that was ever fixed. My guess is it' could be a memory issue. Two minutes seems kind of like a long time to include audio in a complex scene. If you're not doing this already, can you use a lower quality audio encoding to use in Carrara and then add the good quality audio in post?

3drendero

General recommendation, use 64bit versions for complex projects, requires both 64bit OS and 64bit Carrara though.

WendyLuvsCatz

after using an audio file to do a Mimic lipsync for example I ALWAYS delete it.
they cause jerkiness and you cannot even manually scrub through nicely, I render to image series and readd it in virtualdub when I save theavi.
as for length, have done mimic animations of 5 or more minutes no issues but never rendered to video with one.

Box8068_31c338ee4b

Thanks for all your responses.
I tried cutting the audio file down by more then half because I am rendering in sections.
I got the same problem. So it doesn't seem to be audio file size.
I would like to use the 64 bit version ( which I own) but there are two issues.
1) I edit animation data at home, which currently is XP 32
2) I have rotoscoping which for some reason did not now show in the 64 bit version.
I am trying to remember if I had the same problem in the 64 bit version, since I have been avoiding it
due to lack of Quicktime compatibility and rotoscoping disappearing.
I can solve the quicktime and rotoscoping issues in 64 bit by rendering to PNG, and using a PNG sequence
for the rotoscoping, but PNG sequence seems to bog down my video editing. and this animation is almost complete.

This 2 minute animation is almost done and I have already rendered the front half. I might try deleting the all the earlier
animation data. Open to other suggestions!
Thanks
8068

3DAGE

HI :)

First of all,. animation data (key-frames) are not specific to 32 or 64 bit's,
if you create animation in any version it will work in any version.

One issue is that you seem to be creating a single 2 min animated sequence, which is fair enough,.but you're going to run into issues with any system (memory usage) if you're rendering that to a single Movie clip, ( it's not an ideal way to work).

Sequenced frames will work better, and I've personally never had any issues with loading sequenced frames into After effects or Premiere, and I've used sequences which are rendered as more than 5000 frames per sequence,, although rendering to 300 frames (10 sec). is more of an average for me,..

Depending on your system and the video editor you're using ,... Sequenced frames should not be causing any issues, ( individual frames are what Film is made of) and you can reduce the display /playback quality in your editor preview,. and then export the completed animation ( with Audio) from your video editor, at the highest quality possible, and to whatever video format you want.

2) I have rotoscoping which for some reason did not now show in the 64 bit version.

Do you have the Asset in the same location on your 64 bit system and 32 bit system,.
have you checked that the rotoscoping asset is loaded and plays back in the preview,
any more info or screen-caps may help

Carrara (64 bit) doesn't have a quicktime (Mov ) export option right now ,.. but that's not Carrara's fault, and it's certainly not an issue which should stop you using the 64 bit version to render or animate.

Whether you have a Video editor,. or only Quicktime player,. you should be able to import a "Sequence of frames into either program, and export to Mov. although,.. that will add compression and that's not always what you want if you're going to edit the footage.

Hope that makes sense .

WendyLuvsCatz

I take it back, cannot get a10 min wav file to load!
so definately limits, curious to know how long now

Kevin Sanderson

A normal mono 44.1khz 16-bit wav file at 10 minutes would be well over 50 megabytes in file size. Stereo would be over 100 megabytes. I can imagine Carrara could easily choke on that or really slow down depending on what else is in memory especially on XP 32-bit. I don't know if it takes 8-bit files which would be smaller. messiah can handle both but it doesn't have a totally accurate waveform display for 8-bit. I think it has a limit, too. 8-bit wouldn't sound too good, though.

Box8068_31c338ee4b

3dage
Your advice has not fallen on totally deaf ears, I have tried some suggestions, since my prior post.
First of all,. animation data (key-frames) are not specific to 32 or 64 bit's,
if you create animation in any version it will work in any version.

True, it was the second issue of the rotoscoping not playing back in 64 bit that second issue steered me back to 32 bit for now.
My other animations won't have rotoscoping , so I'm just trying to get through this one.

One issue is that you seem to be creating a single 2 min animated sequence, which is fair enough,.but you're going to run into issues with any system (memory usage) if you're rendering that to a single Movie clip, ( it's not an ideal way to work).
Because of continous motion my animation time line is 2 minutes, but I was rendering in smaller sections.

Sequenced frames will work better, and I've personally never had any issues with loading sequenced frames into After effects or Premiere, and I've used sequences which are rendered as more than 5000 frames per sequence,, although rendering to 300 frames (10 sec). is more of an average for me,..
I'm editing in sony Vegas Pro. So they say it should not be an issue. So I tried it. The PNG bogged the system down. The response I got from the fourm was because Vegas was pulling frame by frame and resizing to a small preview window it may be slowing it down.
So I did try.

Depending on your system and the video editor you're using ,... Sequenced frames should not be causing any issues, ( individual frames are what Film is made of) and you can reduce the display /playback quality in your editor preview,. and then export the completed animation ( with Audio) from your video editor, at the highest quality possible, and to whatever video format you want.

2) I have rotoscoping which for some reason did not now show in the 64 bit version.

Do you have the Asset in the same location on your 64 bit system and 32 bit system,.
have you checked that the rotoscoping asset is loaded and plays back in the preview,
any more info or screen-caps may help
The screen was blank in the shader preview window. I reloaded the the video clip and did not see the image even though Carrara appeared to act as if the image was loaded and playing. I posted about this in this fourm. Most seemed to believe it was the codec that created the AVI. It was unfortunately Quick time. The rotoscoping worked fine when I went back to 32 bit Carrara. PNG's were suggested, I tried that and it worked. I could remake the AVI using Vegas, which I assume would be windows native, but again it adding a lot of work on a clip almost finished to make 64 bit work. I'm really trying to get the workflow streamlined. I was surprised that the AVI's exported in Quicktime had any issues. Windows Media player played them just fine.

Carrara (64 bit) doesn't have a quicktime (Mov ) export option right now ,.. but that's not Carrara's fault, and it's certainly not an issue which should stop you using the 64 bit version to render or animate.

Your right. Apple has no true 64 bit quicktime, and has no plans to make on since they have switched their video processing on the Mac.
But, Other windows software has found a way around this issue. Vegas for one, Preimere I believe for another.
What this makes me wonder is this. Is Carrara primarily a Mac or PC software? It seems though the PC side is suffering so I assume there is a larger Mac user base?

Whether you have a Video editor,. or only Quicktime player,. you should be able to import a "Sequence of frames into either program, and export to Mov. although,.. that will add compression and that's not always what you want if you're going to edit the footage.
So it's not that I'm not taking your advice which I do appreciate, very much. I guess the simple answer is. 32 bit has a much simpler work flow, the pre created AVI's work, and I can render direct to QT animation, which looks great and is very smooth. But 32 bit can't handle it with out chocking. ( I believe it's the combo of rotoscoping and Audio playback )
So I need to get to 64 bit, which means. 1) I can't build animations at home as I have been on my 32 bitxp, ( right now this is choking at home) 2) I have to re render rotoscope footage that does work in 32 bit. 3) I have to go to png renders then convert because the 1920 X 1080 png's seem to bong down vegas.
I only explain so you don't think I'm being stubborn, and I am listening to, trying, and appreciate your advice.
I hoe this makes sense.
Thanks
8068

Hope that makes sense .

Kevin Sanderson

Funny, the Mac people feel it's the PC version that works better as most PC users report fewer problems here.

I think it's more the limitations of XP 32\bit's memory usage.

I'd never put AVI files in Quicktime, but that's me.

Give TGA files a whirl in Vegas if you have the time. I've had no problems with those back in version 8. I have 10 now but haven't used it since it's on my Vista computer that died. I've been too busy doing other things to bring it to life and it needed a 64-bit version to run right and my only working 64 bit is the older Windows XP Pro 64-bit and Vegas won't run on it.

3DAGE

True, it was the second issue of the rotoscoping not playing back in 64 bit that second issue steered me back to 32 bit for now.
My other animations won’t have rotoscoping , so I’m just trying to get through this one.

What format Is the video or sequence you're using for rotoscoping.

If it's quicktilme then it won't work on 64bit since there 's no encoder / decoder.

I’m editing in sony Vegas Pro. So they say it should not be an issue. So I tried it. The PNG bogged the system down. The response I got from the fourm was because Vegas was pulling frame by frame and resizing to a small preview window it may be slowing it down.

Is Vegas running on the 64 bit system ?,.. If so,. it really shouldn't be having issues with sequenced frames.

If it is,.. try another video editor.

Is Carrara primarily a Mac or PC software? It seems though the PC side is suffering so I assume there is a larger Mac user base?

Carrara is both Mac and PC,. and there maybe more PC users than Mac users, but I've really no idea of the percentage of users per platform.

As Kevin mentioned , the 10 min's of Audio will choke most programs which are more than a playback device.
Carrara has to Break up the audio in memory , so that it can be scrubbed in the timeline.

Using a really reduced audio, for example (8khz) as a "GUIDE" for your animation,. and then replacing that with the Original Audio in the Video editor is a much better and simpler approach.

Also consider the last TV show or Movie you watched which had a single shot, which lasted for ten minutes.

Apart from "A touch of evil" where the opening shot lasts for just over three minutes, and is considered to be the longest single opening shop in film history.

Normally in film and animation there's a cut to a different camera angle or position, every few seconds.
In some music video's that can come down to several shots per second.

If you think of a conversation,. then you;'re usually cutting back and forth between the actors at the end of each sentence, or more to get reactions.

Create the animations,. then add the audio in a video editor.

I only explain so you don’t think I’m being stubborn,
No , not at all,. I understand you're trying to figure out a Work-flow,. but you need to use the Video editor as the Final compositions tool. and figure out what you need to render from carrara,.
Normally I wouldn't consider using Audio in Carrara unless it's a short clip, of conversation for (lipsysnc) and render out the results as a sequence without any Audio, then add the audio in AE .,,,and I'd only use Sequenced frames as the input for rotoscoping and never a movie clip, since either you're working with a "Chunky" single file, (uncompressed), or a Compressed video clip, which you're then possibly adding more compression to, when you render it out,.

Hope it helps :)

evilproducer

If I am having a problem rendering directly to a movie (the Animation codec is my codec of choice), I'll render to png, especially if there's an alpha channel involved. To keep FCP happy, I open the png sequence with Quicktime Pro and export the sequence as a .mov file using the Animation codec, which is lossless. The resulting movie should work just fine in your video editor even if there is an alpha channel. If there is an alpha in the original image sequence, Quicktime will respect it as long as you render to a codec which supports it, such as the Animation Codec. I've tested this numerous times with no artifacts in the resulting file. If there were, they'd show up big time with an alpha channel.

I should add, that the Quicktime Player is a free QT viewer and has limited functionality. Like the various flavors of Carrara, all the components are there, you just can't get to all of them unless you have the Pro version. If I recall, the Save As and Export options are limited. There are other limitations as well, including, possibly, the ability to open and/or save image sequences.

WendyLuvsCatz

was curious enough to try a test, a four minute audio imports fine and lipsyncs but 5 min not recognized.
so limit somewhere between 4&5 mins on my PC.
that is per sound file, multiple files can be used at different time points but as I said, I delete after creating the lipsync and add audio in my video editor (virtualdub) I think the memory used by the soundfile in the program may well be the issue.