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Semantics - we agree in principle. I should have said "Our only hope for a palatable Microsoft Windows experience.." to emphasize my point - Linux would be a more palatable experience (for me, anyway), but my point was, if you're talking about an "MS Windows" experience, your only hope for a tolerable experience is to stay with XP or Win7 and hope Win9 is better...
But if you want a REAL OS... Linux. OS/2 used to qualify, but alas, it has gone the way of the 8-track.
Linux and OS/2 could both run on a server for literally years without rebooting. That's a real OS!
I see what you're saying there and I agree entirely. I mean Windows XP was way more usable than the newer releases. The reason it's gone downhill is because they are constantly finding more underhand ways of manipulating you into either not having or not finding settings they don't want you to change. Now of course there is Windows 8, the latest and most impressive demonstration of manipulation they've released to date.
BTW, was just having a re-read of that Apple link, spotted this one and almost hurt myself laughing:
"Apple store staff are taught twisted psychological manipulation.
The mere practice of referring to service staff as "geniuses" is dishonest already."
Never could figure that one out myself, I mean have you seen those "Geniuses" (through the Window I mean)?
heh heh heh.
Anyway, must stop this otherwise I'll probably say something to get me banned, and I don't want that. As long as a few more people know what is going on with these corporations then I've done my part, can't do any more really - don't have the time for starters. Common sense, that's all it takes to deal with these corrupt tossers, and the way to do it is as simple as installing Linux and not going back.
Maybe my post will help someone out, perhaps not, who knows.
I suppose I'm just assuming everyone's IQ is above that of a lemming!
*Cough*
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/jul/04/apple-ipad-software-update
*Cough*
Now how can a hot women like that get sucked in so easily, I dunno, I really dunno ;-)
At least she can get a new one before the two years is up!
Sorry, that was the last one, I promise.
You silly person of North Humberside. This is nominally a thread about using Bryce on Windows 8, posted to the Bryce forum. Yes, it's gone off track a bit in the normal splendid way of human interactions, but to end up with an evangelical promotion of Linux because idiots don't understand the business model of a social network site has carried it safely into the waiting arms of sarcasm.
Have you any other completely-useless-to-Bryce-users advice for achieving salvation? Avoid carnal temptation by retreating to a monastery and taking up contemplative basket weaving? Save the planet by giving up electricity and hosting a colony of woodlice in your underpants? All very noble perhaps, but not much help in exploring Bryce lighting techniques or coaxing the application to keep going in the current absence of developer support.
This is just your latest hobby-horse to rant about (makes a change from camera of the week). That's fine with me, of course, but don't expect to expound on your soapbox and not get heckled mercilessly from the back row.
I can assure you that Apple know nothing about my life.
They may have some details of a fictional character called Dave Savage... Good luck to anyone who wants to mine that information. :cheese:
On the subject of Windows 8, prospective users who are put off by the new, improved graphical user inyourface, should not despair.
It is possible to operate 8 pretty much as Windows 7, avoiding the 'phone screen previously known as "Metro" entirely (unless you want to..) and enjoying the ancient prodding of the start button and delving into all its scrumptious menus. I won't link as I'm not fully up-to-date, but the know-how is out there and easy.
I strongly suspect that a service pack will come along quite soon and offer these remedies officially. Microsoft is disappointed with Windows 8 sales (despite the cheapest and deepest upgrade offer ever*) and the president of the Windows division who oversaw the development and launch has swiftly been given the opportunity to spend more time with his family.
Microsoft are all eager to jump into the money madness of mobile, but they dick with their conservative, corporate-desktop worldwide userbase at their peril. As Apple will discover with the likes of that Guardianista that Len linked to, if you force people into big changes they might just decide that they can make a big change away from you.
*Quite tempted, on some spare hardware, to upgrade to Windows 8 Pro from an old XP license for next to nought, just for interest's sake (and to annoy Len).
@Peter
Chill, Mr "iThing" user. It was a response to the "resistance is futile comment".
And yes indeed it was also an opportunity to promote Linux, and so what, it deserves to be promoted when people are being taken for a ride. Things like that might not bother you, but it bothers me. If you don't like it, that's too bad. We don't all share your outlook on things (I don't have an iThing for starters) no more than we all share my outlook on things. But if I see a chance to promote something that needs promoting in the face of all this bullshit, I will do so.
Don't shoot the messenger you silly flea-infested fur-ball of limited awareness.
Like I said, we all make mistakes, but as long as we learn from them ...
And if you're so upset about "topic" then don't ask questions regarding it, quite obvious really. You got sarcasm because you gave sarcasm. If you cannot take sarcasm then quit dishing it out. Being sarcastic as to my pursuits only makes you look lame. I see nothing wrong in fighting this illegal bullshit and neither should you.
@Dave
That's what you think. I take it you've never made an online purchase using you Apple computer then, Dave.
If that is the case, silly me, I stand corrected.
Now if you'll excuse me I have to clear the lice from my underpants, and f*ck me, it's even worse than I thought, I mean even that hairy twat, Peter, knows what's down my trousers. Give it a couple more years and Facebook will have see-through scan recognition technology for data-mining the popularity of genital piercings, and they'll know how big your cock is assuming you ever stepped through a scan point at an airport.
Bloody hell, this pumeco dude must be eight inches or so, file him under potential pornstar.
Later that week I pay for the petrol at the filling station booth and ask for a rubber while I'm at it (got lucky with a Peasant Girl).
How did you know what size I wanted, and why are you winking at me like that?
Oh wait, it's all listed on the till readout because you got my number plate from the plate recognition system, and that linked to who I am, and that linked to my credit card transactions, and that inked to my trip to Bulgaria last year, and that linked to my scan as I passed through the airport to Bulgaria last year, and that of course led to the conclusion of eight inches.
So eight inches it is then, and large is the requirement, sir.
Well don't forget to tape over your webcam (oh, and disconnect the internal microphone while you're at it). Wouldn't want Google's planned audio analysis snooping to catch you groaning over the latest shot of the moon now, would we? We should also consider the poor girl who already got photographed in her house with her tits out. She never gave Google permission to do that but her tits are now public property whether she likes it or not.
Just saying, and giving you ample warning cause I have no desire to see those man-boobs.
Someone, please, give the guy a cookie, quick!
Exactly, and that's all the more reason to take an opportunity like this to encourage the change. GNU/Linux doesn't have the funding of greedy corporations behind it because it doesn't take advantage of it's users like greedy corporations do. At times like this, when the corporate greed has finally started to bite those greedy corporations on the arse, that is the time to push for things that have your interests at heart, not theirs.
You just arrogantly dismissed a guy who not only fought for free software in a big way, but took the time to index the facts for people so that they are aware of what's going on. Would you rather not know about these things?
I really don't know what's wrong with you. For an educated guy (which you obviously are) I think that was an incredibly foul thing to do if I'm honest about it. Really quite amazed, I mean how stupid do you have to be to dismiss the only other option you have if you want to avoid manipulation?
That's exactly what you just did. By all means, install Windows 8 and fund a corrupt corporation even further. There's something seriously wrong when, despite the facts that are out there, people are happy to support such things when there are alternatives out there. It just goes to show what mammoth a task it must be to educate people as to what they're really doing.
Either way, I'm sure Microsoft are thankful for the money and will make good use of you using their software.
People will do as they wish, but it was still an eye opener for me though; your attitude towards it.
I can assure you that Apple know nothing about my life.
They may have some details of a fictional character called Dave Savage... Good luck to anyone who wants to mine that information. :cheese:
Sounds like you sir practice the same policy I employed when I first got on the internet. I'm not sure why because back in the 90's they didn't have social networks and if you mentioned facebook people would think you were talking about an actual book of portrait shots of people, but some how I knew it would be a good idea to be very careful about what I revealed on this Information Super Highway and so I instituted a policy of "They only know what I want them to know" What this means for example, is that when I sign up for a site and it asks for the town I live in it may be my town from when I was 5, it might be a town I'd like to live in, or it might be a town called Anytown. The same for the rest of my information.
Damn you're right... my online purchases are made through Paypal on an account quite clearly owned and operated by a chap called MrPsychoClown.... Now Apple will know all about my career in the circus.
Despite the scaremongering, it is very possible to operate an Apple computer without giving your (real) personal information to anyone.
And despite your reliance on Linux/Ubuntu, it is still possible for hackers to obtain your information.
The trick isn't to rely on public domain/open source as a solution (it's openness allows it to be more exploited by the unscrupulous)... but to take sensible precautions to protect your data in the first place... If you want to know how you can better do this, let me have your name and address and I'll post you some leaflets.
Which poor girl would that be?
Evidence please.
Which poor girl would that be?
Evidence please.
I want to see too
I suspect he's referring to the girl in Florida who was stood outside her house naked when the Google Street View camera car went past.
Nothing to do with spying and everything to do with if you stand outside naked in view of the street, and someone in the street sees you, it's your own fault and no one else's.
I have a very strict policy of not giving anyone all the correct information (if there is no legal requirement for the recipient to need your information ALWAYS just make stuff up).
I have also spent a vast amount of time resisting data mining when for instance you try to buy something from a store (in the real world) and they ask you for your post code (zip code) and address. My response to that question is always: It's none of your business, here's my money, give me what I've just purchased. I do have some very amusing stories about some of the ridiculous discussions I've had with confused shop workers in those situations.
I suspect he's referring to the girl in Florida who was stood outside her house naked when the Google Street View camera car went past.
Nothing to do with spying and everything to do with if you stand outside naked in view of the street, and someone in the street sees you, it's your own fault and no one else's.
I had to ask - f.........................
@bigh
lol - Yeah, poor girl, she has a hot body and has every right to flaunt it (and I'm certainly not complaining), but the thing is, her home lies within the boundaries of that wire fence, and Google have taken away her right to flaunt herself in an area she was prepared to flaunt herself, effectively forcing her to flaunt herself worldwide.
When she did that, I very much doubt she expected her father to see his daughters naked body flaunted all over the internet. There are no street signs in her street warning that "Google operates here". It's ridiculous, I can't even sunbathe in my speedos in the back garden in case I end up on some site. I wouldn't mind so much if I had a choice where the Google snaps are shown (and my Peasant Girls would be more than welcome to them), but the point is I would not have that choice even though I'd operated within the boundaries of my own home, just like the poor girl in the photo.
Google are using technology that doesn't work effectively enough to protect people (it's failed many many times). All they care about is the money it generates, not you, or your privacy. I love Google Street View, I especially love exploring Hong Kong and Japan etc on it. But that doesn't forgive the broken technology and policy they have behind the project. Many countries are savvy, and won't even allow Google to operate Street View in their country.
Until Google quit the liberty-taking and fix the technology, I'm prepared to conclude that those countries are wise.
@LordHardDriven
You have a sensible attitude but you are still blind to a lot of things that are going on around you, just as our friend "Pseudo-Dave" here. Please see what I'm about to say to "Dave" because it's pretty much the same as I want to say to you.
@Pseude-Dave
First of all I'd like to thank you for your concern and offer to bring me up to speed on how to protect my identity. I hope you'll not be offended if I take a miss on that one, but instead, educate you as to why you're being extremely lax. I've been savvy to this bullshit ever since 2002. Having a pseudo-identity affords you nothing but fun. Before I ever started using forums I had already decided I would not withhold my identity, and the reason I did that is because at the time, it was an impossible task. Some people choose to go the "pseudo route" and some people choose the "character root".
I chose to go the character root because it's even more fun than the pseudo root. Without a doubt, my all time favourite character is playing dumb and is the one I've always used on Bryce forums. On other forums I'm a complete and utter b*stard (and therefore use a psuedo), but I don't do that thinking my psuedo hides who I really am, I'm not that stupid.
The reason I'm not that stupid is because I'm savvy to what goes on around us:
- Did you know for example that you're being lied to and have been for years?
- Smartphone carriers told you all your data was being encrypted - they lied
Everything you did on your smartphone has been sent to an anonymous party "in the clear" and without encryption, just another example of the underhand practices that go on without telling the user. Every button you pushed, every game you played, every email you wrote, every password you typed, every bank you visited - on a smartphone - has likely been sent "in the clear" without your permission and without you knowing about it.
If you was one of those that did know about it before you used it, then good for you, but again, these conversations are here for the poor bazzrds that weren't aware of it.
Here's CIQ for you to chew on (and no, it's not just Android OS either):
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/the-rootkit-of-all-evil-ciq/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T17XQI_AYNo
... yet another example of why you should not use a "closed-source" operating system such as Apple or Microsoft produce. This is what happens on mobile devices; it's a separate data-feed for unidentified snoops at the other end. What you need to do now, is look at all the bullshit the likes of Apple, Facebook, and Microsoft can get away with even in public, and ask yourselves, what on earth must they be doing behind your back?
Psuedo-Dave is actually a very apt name, and it's ironic really because you only pseudo-think you have a pseudo-identity.
The good news is that Linux of course, is "open", where anyone is free to examine the code. The reason you are free to examine the code is because it is not there to take advantage of you.
FSF GNU/Linux distributions list:
https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html
Wake up peasants, for your own sake. By all means have a pop at me, whatever, I've taken enough crap on forums not to care, just don't start whining your heads off in the future if you ignore it. Linux is free and you can still use your current OS - you can still use Bryce. You have nothing to loose unless you ignore it, in which case, you have my sympathy in advance.
Anyway, I'll have to make my posts short again, I really didn't intend to spend so much time thrashing this out, time is scarce right now, sorry. I'm expecting a rant from Peter, but even that will have to go lightly.
OK everyone, we have had fun with taking this thread totally off topic, but can we now please let the peripheral conversations drop and let it go back to the Original Topic, which was about getting Bryce to run under windows 8.
IF you really need to talk about Linux I suggest you get in touch with Kendall Sears, who is the acknowledged Linux expert on the DAZ 3D forums.
I have a very strict policy of not giving anyone all the correct information (if there is no legal requirement for the recipient to need your information ALWAYS just make stuff up).
I have also spent a vast amount of time resisting data mining when for instance you try to buy something from a store (in the real world) and they ask you for your post code (zip code) and address. My response to that question is always: It's none of your business, here's my money, give me what I've just purchased. I do have some very amusing stories about some of the ridiculous discussions I've had with confused shop workers in those situations.
Yeah I can imagine, it's always amusing when you take customer service people or survey takers/pollsters outside of the script they're instructed to follow to a T.
So none then.
Yes information is sent unencrypted, yes certain geo-location software can identify your exact position.... so give me a link to one single example of where this has been abused by any of these big nasty corporations and tell us all how the people who rely on geo-positioning can possibly continue to rely on such technology without sharing their exact location... show me a database that can't be hacked, or for that matter, find me an office that can't be broken into... The fact is technology comes with advantages and disadvantages and none of it can be relied upon to provide security (Linux is not unhackable). For this reason, everyone should be just as careful of giving personal information no matter what platform they use.
Edited to add: Sorry Chohole I'm not ignoring you, your post wasn't there when I started composing this. :)
Back to the topic: Sorry I've no idea about Windows.
Well I did read what you wrote to Dave and all I can say is, I'm glad I don't and never have owned any smartphone or any wireless device for that matter (other then a none internet capable cellphone). There's too much life going on all around us when we are out and about to want to have to focus all my attention on a tiny little screen that is controlled by tiny little buttons my big clumsy fingers have difficulty with. No I prefer to do all my internet related stuff where I have my nice big 22" monitor screen and a full size keyboard. Plus I know that being online this way, as long as I am careful about what information is given out by me then the rest of my privacy is guarded by the very strict privacy policy my ISP uses that says they release nothing to no one without my consent or a court order. All that being said though, hopefully everyone is aware that if someone gets your IP (not as hard to do as some might think) they can identify the home town you live in or operate your internet from, but that's it. Beyond that they need that court order I mentioned. That though is why if you ever run across a pop up ad for a singles site there always happens to be someone from your home town looking for action in the ad.
Sorry I always read and respond to posts in the order they appear from when I last viewed a thread. So I didn't see you justified request until after I already violated it, my apologies. I'll stay on topic hence forth although I must say the general direction of the conversation does offer up mostly good information that many aren't aware of but should be.
@Pseudo-Dave
Due to Pam's request I cannot respond in the way I really want to (lucky you).
All I will say is you come across as a complete muppet when you talk like that, and you're getting touchy because you've finally realised what a situation your "Apple Thing" has helped to put you in. That's at least something I suppose, but arguing the toss with you is pointless due to your attitude. What can I say "when you're right you're right" - I'll leave you with that belief.
I could have PM'd you and explained something to you, but due to the attitude I no longer have the incentive to do that. The biggie, the thing you're clearly blissfully unaware of, already has you by the knackers. The really amusing thing is that for one who is "savvy", you are clearly missing out on something that has been public knowledge for a while now.
Let's hope it appears on that website soon, I'm sure it will, then you'll know what it is like the savvy people do. And BTW, the reason you don't hear about "conspiracies" and "your data being abused" is because they have the power to make sure you don't hear about it, it's called "censorship" and it goes hand-in-hand with protecting these corrupt corporations from action when they abuse your data - and they do abuse your data - I assure you - even yours.
You can apologise later when it finally dawns upon you, but in the meantime - lol
@Pam
I would like to thank you for once: I'm amazed this was allowed to continue so far, but it shows good sportsmanship on both your and DAZ's part. Your customers need to know about this stuff, so thank's for letting it be.
Didn't know about Kendal and Linux either, thanks!
@LordHardDriven
Thanks for taking the correct tone and indulging in conversation without feeling defensive about it. Again, due to the request I cannot discuss it, but it's good to see someone understands the importance of this stuff being here. People need only search the web and news sites to understand that this is all very real. They need only to install Linux to discover a whole new world away from all this corporate bullshit.
Dave earlier sided with Google in that it's the girls fault in flaunting herself in public. The problem with that statement is that it shows the flawed thinking he practices. The reason it's not the girls fault is because you don't expect Google to whiz by when you're in the nude. And the difference between "someone on the street" seeing her, and "Google" seeing her, is that people on the street are not connected to huge collections of world-mapped databases ran by a corporation.
Google, however, is.
Are you aware of the phrase "jam tomorrow"?
Let's hope that "something" (anything) appears on that site soon so you can say "that's what it was"... please don't project your own credulity onto me.
Continue to build your strawmen and utilising your logical fallacies... argument by assertion isn't going to convince many intelligent people of anything.
I predict a locked thread in about three...two...one...
Well, I'll get my 2 cents worth in...then
Probably the best bet to run Bryce would be on a virtual machine running XP. In previous versions of Windows (Vista and 7) that was fairly easy to do...not sure how it is on 8. Second best...set up a secondary machine. Bryce is an older 32 bit program that doesn't really benefit much from the latest hardware, so pull out that older machine from the garage, set it up with XP, and put Bryce on it...a few year old machine with 2-4 GB of RAM and you should be good to go.
As to the issue of Bryce on Linux...mostly, with WINE 1.5.9 or later...it runs and you can do things, but it is sluggish and not all the windows/menus open in the expected manner...but there are no 'lost' pop-behinds and such. It would rate about 'silver', on Wine's rating scale.
Thankyou for bringing the convo back on topic mjc.
Can we now please keep it on topic, if not Action will have to be taken.
So far the best bet seems to be to run Bryce directly on Win8 (as mentioned in the third post of the thread http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/11544/#166135 ), perhaps with a bit of waiting and tweaking to get drivers working, etc.
Unfortunately the free Virtual XP option from Microsoft (for Win7 Pro and above) doesn't seem to be available for Win8. I found some tips and tricks online for transporting the Win7 version into Win8 ( http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/windows/3411230/how-migrate-windows-xp-mode-windows-8/ ) but that's not useful if you're upgrading from XP itself. (The cheap upgrade from any version of XP to Win8 Pro is extremely attractive.)
However, Win8 Pro does come with Hyper-V built in, a virtualisation agent that clever people can use to set up multiple virtual computers and operating systems. As well as running XP (not sure how you might license it), and thus Bryce, you could also run Linux. Some people browse the net and try out untested files, etc, on these virtual PCs with no threat to the base machine. The virtual machine is simply vaped at the end of the session along with any tracking cookies or malware that might have crept in. I really should endeavour to become one of these clever people.
@Pam
I hope this post is ok, I will PM Dave but I'd just like to clarify something so that people aren't confused. Sort of conclude it where it started.
@Dave
I'll find the best example of what I'm talking about and PM you a link. It's not very sporting of me to mention something and then keep it from you, but no, I ain't copping out of anything.
You're likely 100x more savvy than I am, but that doesn't mean you are unbreakable and you're aware of everything a savvy person ought to be. All I will say is that if you'd read what I'd read, I very much doubt you'd be as confident as you are, which is why I'm confident you don't know about it. There is mention of it on his site already, sort of, but the link isn't to what I saw originally on a different site. What I read could indeed be nonsense for all I know, but I'll let you be the judge of that when you read it for yourself. Just be sure what we were talking about here, because while I'm mainly talking about corporations abusing data, you sound more like you were debating anonymity.
I'm quite sure you're more anonymous than I am because like I said, I chose not to be anonymous because there is little point. Software that requires physical shipments, bills, and online banking make it practically impossible anyway. But "being open" is getting abused by the likes of Facebook and the OS publishers. And I take major issue when assholes like Facebook can data-mine me without me even being a member of their website. It means even those that chose not to be part of their data-mining bullshit are getting data-mined anyway. That is outright abuse of human rights, and liberty taking of a level I've never seen the likes of before.
It's a perfect example of what powers they truly have.
But anyway, like I said, I'll drop you a PM with a link or two rather than push my luck with Pam and post it on the forum. She's old but has a club.
@mjc1016
Thanks for the heads-up using wine, but can you tell me which Linux distribution that was on?
Even if it's sluggish I assume you're talking about the interface, and I can live with that. I can live with a sluggish interface if it means I can avoid Windows altogether, and ultimately, that is my goal. The only obstacle I've come up against on Linux is not being able to get some of my VST's working due to them having a dongle. If it weren't for the dongle I'm confident even those would have worked.
Slackware64 13.37...been running Slackware exclusively now since 11(yeah,I still had XP on a drive and a LILO entry for it, but never booted into it) and as dual setup for so long I've forgotten the original version number...but it was small enough to fit on a few floppies.
I ran all the Win7 betas in a virtual machine under Linux.
As to the dongle...that's one of the great examples of corporate 'we know best'-ism I can think of, because not only do they tie one to a particular OS, but more often than not a particular release/version and even a particular hardware configuration.
As to the free virtualXP...I haven't played with/looked at Win8 enough to know that it wasn't included...but doesn't it surprise me. Now if I could just get past the stomach churning UI long enough to reconfigure it to something much more useful, I may give Win8 a 'shakedown' cruise.
But for me, I don't use Bryce often enough to do much with getting it working completely. I do have enough older hardware, that I should be able to set it up on it's own...maybe put it and DS3 on another machine along with a KVM...hmmm...now that's starting to sound like a project....maybe even throw Luxrender on there, too, to add another node for network rendering...